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Post by cozee on Oct 9, 2018 11:32:41 GMT -7
I rack it up to the old days of organized HO racing, not only as a racer, but also race host/director and one of the founding members of more than one club/organization. I am a stickler for clear and concise rules as experiences have proven that this is the way to eliminate questions and confusion. With that, my questions concern "legal" or allowable chassis in the Inline division. I have been reading and rereading the rules but find no clarification of what is or is not allowed in any given Inline class. Is this division open to any and all Inline chassis in any given class? Are scratch built chassis allowed?
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Post by jjwallace on Oct 9, 2018 12:09:31 GMT -7
Cozee typically the NTRA rules that are posted are a guideline. The Racemaster will add any details as needed. Example: For my last race I allowed all chassis types. Typically scratch builts are only in unlimited. I personally do not like "house rules". I would prefer that we operate under one set of rules. Once again.....the NTRA rules as posted are a guideline. They can be interpreted as is or tweaked by the Racemaster.
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Post by cozee on Oct 9, 2018 13:51:07 GMT -7
Hmmm, for some reason I thought NTRA was more like 1:1 as far as rules. Time for a rethink as this could mean needing to build several cars throughout a given year or rebuilding a few cars several times.
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Post by jjwallace on Oct 9, 2018 14:12:40 GMT -7
Hmmm, for some reason I thought NTRA was more like 1:1 as far as rules. Time for a rethink as this could mean needing to build several cars throughout a given year or rebuilding a few cars several times. Yes Sir! Precisely why I prefer a single set of rules that we all use and go by. That is exactly what ends up happening these days. I almost have to build a car for every race. I don't like to change builds...especially if they are performers. The only thing that is set is the List races. It used to be like that......one set of rules that everyone goes by. But then it transitioned to how it is now. I use the posted rules and all I do to them is clarify some of the vague areas. It has worked well and we have had no problems. |
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Post by cozee on Oct 9, 2018 14:29:20 GMT -7
Roger that. I hope to be able to host a race sometime early-mid 2019 and will run NTRA rules as they are. I feel running a select few of the classes covered by the rules at a given event is variance enough. Otherwise, we might as well run heads-up or brackets.
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Post by dave632 on Oct 10, 2018 14:04:56 GMT -7
I am for a set of rules that we go by. Currently we have a guideline and there have been few conflicts but the racemasters have tweaked them slightly. There was a time when there were to many picky rules that had no effect on performance on this site and all it did was cause arguments. Sam came up with this guideline and it has worked well so far with little trouble. Lets not get to crazy with to many rules. ONLY things that effect performance should be addressed.
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Post by cozee on Oct 10, 2018 14:38:06 GMT -7
I am for a set of rules that we go by. Currently we have a guideline and there have been few conflicts but the racemasters have tweaked them slightly. There was a time when there were to many picky rules that had no effect on performance on this site and all it did was cause arguments. Sam came up with this guideline and it has worked well so far with little trouble. Lets not get to crazy with to many rules. ONLY things that effect performance should be addressed. I agree, to a point. Hence my original question. There are inline chassis out there may or may not be legal. to leave that up to a given Race Director at an individual race brings inconsistency. I can understand this method if races are not under the NTRA banner, but if they are, being clear and concise with the rules is imperative. If no one has ever heard of or seen a Thor chassis, how can they determine it's legality to compete? |
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Post by jjwallace on Oct 10, 2018 15:03:00 GMT -7
I am for a set of rules that we go by. Currently we have a guideline and there have been few conflicts but the racemasters have tweaked them slightly. There was a time when there were to many picky rules that had no effect on performance on this site and all it did was cause arguments. Sam came up with this guideline and it has worked well so far with little trouble. Lets not get to crazy with to many rules. ONLY things that effect performance should be addressed. I agree, to a point. Hence my original question. There are inline chassis out there may or may not be legal. to leave that up to a given Race Director at an individual race brings inconsistency. I can understand this method if races are not under the NTRA banner, but if they are, being clear and concise with the rules is imperative. If no one has ever heard of or seen a Thor chassis, how can they determine it's legality to compete? I do agree with Dave632 in that the format we are currently using has worked with very little problems. I'm pretty easy when it comes to things like this. As long as we are all on the same page...then I'm good with it. Questions are asked before each event to clarify any issues. Yes sometimes it does mean changing some builds, but even though I prefer not to do that, it hasn't really been that much of a problem. I don't think we will be changing anything anytime soon. What we have now came out of a brainstorming session with several core individuals and it has worked since that time. |
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Post by dave632 on Oct 10, 2018 20:01:35 GMT -7
The only custom chassis I know of is made by Eagle and it looks like a good one. Never heard of a Thor. A chassis would have to show a clear advantage to be disallowed at any of my races. Jeffs last inline stock race had a couple of the new Jag DR chassis showing the way but at the last race it was Tomy and BSRT with the wins and there were some DRs, Tyco and other chassis in that one. I will publish which chassis the cars are running at my event in December and we can see if there is any trend. I think the BSRT chassis would have an advantage with a high downforce unlimited car as the chassis is stiffer and able to use very strong magnets. Beyond that I don't know.
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Post by cozee on Oct 10, 2018 21:05:11 GMT -7
Yes, a G can be a wickedly fast unlimited car, but there are faster ones out there, at least in the road course racing world. If you haven't heard of a Thor then you probably haven't heard of a Hammer, Decosmo, or possibly Slottech Panther or Cheetah. What makes Eagles' chassis any different than a scratch built or custom CNC cars?
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Post by jjwallace on Oct 11, 2018 3:04:59 GMT -7
We can "what if" or "what about this" all day long about ANY set of rules. In my opinion a "scratch built" chassis would be a "one off" type build. Eagles chassis I guess could be looked at like that in some respect, but he is mass producing those as fast as one man can, so at what point does it become production? Doesn't matter.....the only class I would permit a scratch built chassis would be the unlimited class. What is the best answer on the rules? Well I can say that everybody will have an opinion on them....that is for sure. I am all for the races utilizing a particular set of rules and we have that in our rules format. I am also all for sticking with that. What we have now is working and it is clear and precise enough to provide solid base to run these proxy races fairly. In the end the rules are only as good as the Racemasters tech. If the cars are not getting teched at the events, then none of it matters. I do tech at my races. As far as the chassis you mentioned being allowed.....if you or anyone has a chassis they have a question about, then bring it up pre event and it will be considered if there is enough info. That has already occured with some chassis from one of our UK racers. We are still in somewhat of a rebuilding stage here at Nitroslots so the keeping it simple helps to bring in new members and racers. We aren't running a full calendar of races either. We have had 5 this year and 2 of those were mine. I understand what you are saying cozee about a strict rules format that spells everything out, but I think what we are using at this time works and once again is clear and precise enough to provide a fair and competitive platform.
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Post by cozee on Oct 11, 2018 4:41:39 GMT -7
I am not trying to stir anything up, just simply asking questions. I wasn't what iffing the rules as my point was about the legality chassis. I asked about certain chassis, two of which were produced at a level equal to or greater than Eagles and the other were far more readily available. Just questions, no challenges. I am new here so I will sit back and observe, compete when I have the cars to do so, and support however I can. A to B guys, A to B!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2018 8:15:57 GMT -7
was THOR one of the Slot Tech chassis with a whole bunch of downforce magnets?
my 1 "scent" here about 'readibly available' chassis.
Eagle makes a hell of a nice chassis. I don't know what his feelings are, but to me it still seems to be in development stages. YES, I bought one and determined the material didn't hold up well for my handling of the axle in and out of the slots. I am going to install bushings and I think Robert is working that as well.
'readibly avaiable' has meant many different things to various race sanctioning bodies that I am associated with. from available at most retail hobby shops to available to the racers associated with a clique.
now, I know there isn't any clique thing going on here because I have seen otherwise. some sanctions also have a time limit that it has to be available for previous to a race.
with the idea of KISS I think it would be a good idea to have everyone who participates AND follows our races chime in about each specific chassis previously mentioned.
for instance .... if rules for a class allow 2 traction magnets then some of those chassis that cozee mentioned would need to remove some traction magnets (if the chassis were permitted at all). would that bring the level of competition back down to a level playing field.
some those cars mentioned are very expensive and I don't think easy to find.
some of you have talked about 1:1 drag racing and I think you have experienced that $ makes horsepower. so those that can afford always have the newest and best. but the rest of us slobs (hey !!!! sometimes I find a way to afford the newest and best, but not too often anymore) are on a limited budget.
I think the racing here is intended to be fun and give everyone a chance.
I have been involved in various scales and formats of slot car racing for about 33 years and have seen way too many groups get out priced by a few. then the racing fades away because too many figure they have no chance of winning and stop competing.
to that end, DRHOE has taken BSRT chassis and parts to extremes and have the fastest drag cars on the planet, bar none. the above mentioned chassis have attempted to compete and been unsuccessful.
I have raced with those guys a many a moon ago and couldn't hang with the investment. I was competitive for a very short while.
I digress.
Keep
It
Simple
Silly
open discussion is what should be taking place regarding specific chassis allowances and a different thread for that.
cozee, please build cars for the upcoming races. I gotta have some one I might be able to beat ! LOL
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Post by dave632 on Oct 11, 2018 8:19:09 GMT -7
It is Ok to get something clear about the rules but this can get out of hand as it has in the past. Lets keep it simple and make it easy for newcomers to race with us without to many RULES. Personally you will have to show me when a chassis has an advantage. I would certainly say that a BSRT has an advantage vs an old AFX G+ but let someone run one if they like. ECBill won one of the Inline races in the past with one of those old G+ chassis. For my upcoming race any inline chassis will be allowed scratch built or not. I don't want to see us racing under rules where everything has to be just so. We are trying to have some fun here not start some bureaucratic mess.
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Post by cozee on Oct 11, 2018 8:31:37 GMT -7
Personally, part of the fun of racing is not having to build new cars or rebuild existing cars for every race because rules vary from race to race. When racing classes, consistency is what makes racing enjoyable for newcomers and veterans alike. I give you HOPRA as an example. They’ve been at it since 1969. Reinventing the wheel isn’t necessary.
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