dungeonracer
Super Stock
U can call me a rookie, but I don't plan to be 4 long...lol
Posts: 18
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Post by dungeonracer on Jan 19, 2019 14:26:27 GMT -7
My first post here, so a little about myself. Been racing slotcars since 2000, mainly 1/32. The last couple years, have gotten pretty involved with a club that holds 1/24 drag races on a portable track (scale 1/8 mile). It's portable because no one in the club has a space big enough to give it a permanent place. So now I have the drag racing bug. With the space I have in my basement, I can fit a scale 1000' HO track there. I am planning to build one from MDF when the weather gets warmer this spring (I'm in NH). Without getting into a magnet debate, I wondering if there's something out there that I can use for the power rails that is non magnetic. Would copper rod be a good choice? I am (at this time) planning to run mainly T-Jet and 4 Gear chassis'ed cars. I have already purchased some chassis and a couple T-Jet cars. Thanks in advance - dickie
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Post by dave632 on Jan 19, 2019 15:17:47 GMT -7
Welcome to the site. I don't know of anyone here running non magnetic rails but copper is a good choice as a better conductor of electricity than steel which all of us use for our rails. As far as keeping the cars on the track however it will not do as well. These cars will spin the tires violently even some stock T jets have a lot of tire spin in the first couple of feet and the pancake style cars such as T Jets have a tendency to twist in the opposite direction of the armature when starting off the line. Try it some time with a stock T jet and some old tires, they will usually spin out at the start and never make it very far. I would also imagine trying to run any of the faster cars would be difficult or near impossible on a non magnetic track as some of them are spinning the tires quite a bit on my track even with good traction magnets. The other thing I see is that ETs and even MPH will suffer a lot even with the slower cars and none of us will be able to test a car in similar conditions since we all have steel rail tracks. If what I have seen is correct the larger scale 1/24 & 1/32 cars use lots of traction compounds to help the cars go down the track something none of us want to do to our tracks. I simply use a little water to wipe the tires off on any cars I run, the rest is up to the car. Having said that it is up to you how you build your track. I am always up for trying something new however and would give it a try knowing the cars would be off any times I could run here on my track.
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dungeonracer
Super Stock
U can call me a rookie, but I don't plan to be 4 long...lol
Posts: 18
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Post by dungeonracer on Jan 19, 2019 16:10:51 GMT -7
Thanks for the quick reply Dave. Yes, most bigger scale drags run foam tires and use glue. We're different. Our club uses urethane tires and no glue allowed. But back to HO... From what I've read, most everyone runs HO cars at around 18 volts. Am I assuming right? How do the T-Jet and 4 Gear cars run at a lower voltage. Would they run at 12-14 volts? I'm guessing by reducing the voltage, the tire spin would be less dramatic. Least that's what I'm hoping. And I would also guess that changing to urethane or silicone tires would improve traction as well. Am I leaning in the right direction, or having a pipe dream? dickie
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Post by AJR on Jan 19, 2019 17:28:43 GMT -7
Thanks for the quick reply Dave. Yes, most bigger scale drags run foam tires and use glue. We're different. Our club uses urethane tires and no glue allowed. But back to HO... From what I've read, most everyone runs HO cars at around 18 volts. Am I assuming right? How do the T-Jet and 4 Gear cars run at a lower voltage. Would they run at 12-14 volts? I'm guessing by reducing the voltage, the tire spin would be less dramatic. Least that's what I'm hoping. And I would also guess that changing to urethane or silicone tires would improve traction as well. Am I leaning in the right direction, or having a pipe dream? dickie Welcome to the site dickie, As far as rails go, I think steel probably gives the most options. You can run with traction magnets or without. Although copper may be a better conductor, steel would still offer consistent comparable power. Blah blah blah...... . In the end it is whatever you want. I see nothing wrong with copper and running the cars at a lower voltage. We have a suggested voltage of 13.8v for our stock pancake classes and we used to run them at that voltage. Over the last couple of years 18v and 20v has just become more of a standard. To be perfectly honest, the races are more exciting a lot of times at the lower voltages. You sometimes get two or three lead changes down track. You are leaning in the right direction. Keep us updated.
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Post by dave632 on Jan 19, 2019 18:28:08 GMT -7
Lowering the voltage would surely help with handling problems and of course good tires. I run all of my races at 20 volts, (pro street is limited to 18v), and I have a 30 amp power supply for each lane. I use 3 power inputs on my track with little power loss but I imagine with copper rails that would not be a problem.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 18:38:17 GMT -7
there is certainly a lot to consider. all the thoughts shared have merit. let us examine why, from nearly the beginning of 1/64 (HO) slot cars, manufacturers and most hobbiests use steel. I think the number one reason is durability. I think it safe to say that copper would wear quicker and the change in rail height would alter the performance of the basic toy slot cars to the point children would lose interest. based on the premise that most 1/64 race cars and tracks were designed to be played with by children. yes, I have raced on copper braid in all three scales of slot car racing and that was satisfying. many purists still insist on copper braid.
as far as voltage, 13.8 was recommended earlier because AW drag tracks have that power supply and this was to encourage folks with a small budget to host races.
in my live races, aside from NITRO rules, we use 24 volts for every class and let the difference in the class builds dictate the difference in performance.
DRHOE uses nearly 28 volts and only races ballistic missiles which need a lot of magnetic down force (hence steel rails).
there are many avenues to choose from and, I am sure, some that haven't been tried.
I think everyone here is open minded as to the possibilities.
welcome to NITRO, resistance is futile, you have been assimilated.
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dungeonracer
Super Stock
U can call me a rookie, but I don't plan to be 4 long...lol
Posts: 18
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Post by dungeonracer on Jan 20, 2019 9:59:29 GMT -7
Guys, thanks for the replies. While I don't have any HO track, I do have a dyno set up that I use for my 1/32 cars. On this, I noted it took about 6-7 volts to get the motor to start spinning. At about 12 volts, it seems to be spinning along happily.
So with what you guys have replied with (running 13.8 volts), I believe I have the courage to go ahead with my plans of using non magnetic rails for power. As mentioned, it'll be spring before I tackle this, but that gives me time to rearrange my basement and pick up a "few" more cars... lol
dickie
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Post by dave632 on Jan 20, 2019 13:30:34 GMT -7
Don't neglect the other HO cars out there. The old AFX pancake cars with or without magnatraction could run on your track and even more modern 6 ohm inlines would run OK at 13.8 volts. I was just testing an old Tyco brass pan chassis car I have sold which has no traction magnets and it actually ran down the track OK even at 20 volts. It is kind of fun when you hear the motor screaming down the track spinning the tires like crazy, toward the end of the track you can hear the tires start to hook up and the sound it makes is something like a V-8 screaming down the track turning 7,000 + rpm.
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Post by ecbill on Jan 21, 2019 14:44:09 GMT -7
dickie,
Glad you joined us here at Nitro Slots. Copper rails sound like an interesting concept. It will be like the earlier days, before traction magnets. Did you ever consider stainless steel? It would be harder than copper and would not tarnish or corrode. Higher grades of stainless are non-magnetic.
Keep us posted as your progress.
Bill
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dungeonracer
Super Stock
U can call me a rookie, but I don't plan to be 4 long...lol
Posts: 18
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Post by dungeonracer on Jan 24, 2019 17:31:31 GMT -7
Hmm, I hadn't but will look into it. Thanks for the suggestion!!
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dungeonracer
Super Stock
U can call me a rookie, but I don't plan to be 4 long...lol
Posts: 18
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Post by dungeonracer on Jan 24, 2019 17:41:18 GMT -7
Maybe not this extreme, but that's kinda what I'm after. The good ol' days before they treated tracks and drivers had to "pedal" the cars off the line to get the best ET's
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Post by dave632 on Jan 25, 2019 10:11:20 GMT -7
The sound I am talking about is made by some of my pancake chassis cars. Seems the sound has something to do with the design and how the air moves thru the chassis. The cars have to be pretty quick to do it hitting about 20 mph or so on my track. Having drag raced full size cars for many years I understand what you mean about the old problem of hooking up on a poor or untreated track. I remember running on 7" cheater slicks which worked OK on a 270 HP 283 but as power goes up it starts to get hairy. I know the crowd gets excited when cars are bouncing off the walls but if you are the owner of a 100K car it is not so enjoyable. I have been well out of shape on a strip even with traction compound and huge 17x34.5 tires, somehow I kept it off the wall on those occasions. The guy I sold my car to was not so lucky.
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