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Post by SKR on Jul 14, 2008 14:18:03 GMT -7
St. Louis S/S Nationals 2008
I just wanted to post my thoughts about the controversial events that took place over the weekend. The bracketing system that St. Louis used was their club system. It was programmed so that 1st place qualifier didn’t race last place qualifier in the first round to make for closer racing in the club. Nothing wrong with this at all. I think we all expected a traditional NHRA type of Ladder. I for one can say that for the Gasser race here, we ran it the way our club runs it’s weekly program and it ‘s not exactly like NHRA’s system also. I don’t feel the S/S race was tainted at all over the outcome and feel that the right cars were in the final. I know some of us could of gone further in the rounds but when it all comes down to it, it was a race no matter who was next to you and you still had a chance. It was actually refreshing seeing some of the slower cars go rounds. From now on I agree we need to run the NHRA ladder system and if a club that runs their program a little different wants to host a race, then we will allow them to do so. If the track wishes to run with their ladder system then it will need to be announced how their system works along with the announcement flyer for the race.
There have been talks of having a rerun. I don’t feel that a rerun is in order. There will be future S/S events along with many others.
I’d like to thank Kevin, Tim R. and everybody that put on this first class event. There are a lot of hours that go into this behind the scenes and I do appreciate all they have done for the Hobby. Also if you get a chance check out all the wonderful sponsors that put up the prizes. Lucky Bob’s, Jags, Road Race Replica, Gmead & Tmead resin bodies, Kdog for putting up his own money for prizes along with other NTRA directors.
This Drag Racing program has been great to many as it has brought some of us together to share what we all love doing. We’re off to a rocky start and there might be other bumps that we come across in the future but we’re willing to take on all obstacles head on to make this the best program possible. Let’s get back to building and racing.
Thanks for all your guys support.
Sam
We would like to hear everybody's feedback. Let's keep all comments pertaining to this subject in this thread.
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Post by chima on Jul 14, 2008 15:31:44 GMT -7
I would like to thank Tim R., Kdog, the sponsors, all of the racers and all involved in putting on the race. It is not only the race directors hands on with preparing for the race, sorting prizes, packing/shipping. Each club has to have a great deal of help from family, friends and other racers. It is very time consuming for everyone all the way to the children. Although it is very time consuming it is greatly worth it for all involved! There is some great racing going on and I find it very rewarding. Thank you to everyone in St. Louis for all of their hard work and dedication. I don't think there is any need for a rerun. You all have my full support. I for one think the way clubs/orgs all over are pulling together racing is freakin awesome! I can't wait for the next event!
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Post by randtek on Jul 14, 2008 16:58:21 GMT -7
I too would like to thank everyone involved with the planning, organizing, and running of the SS Nationals. Great Job everyone!
I really enjoyed learning what is now being done with T-Jets, and getting one ready for the race. I look forward to participating in many future NTRA events.
As far as the rules go, I personally don't care if they bracket by 16s, 10s or whatever. As long as the rules are fairly applied as established, everyone faces the same advantages/disadvantages. I spent 5 years as a Scoutmaster, and each year I organized and ran the "Pinewood Derby" race. No matter how much we planned and prepared, it seems there would always be one or two parents that would cause problems, and thought they could do a better job of running the event. Strangely enough, they never seemed to be the ones that would speak up when we asked for volunteers to help run the event.
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Post by dave hochallanged evans on Jul 14, 2008 17:28:52 GMT -7
randtex is on target,with a field this large the track opted to use the system drivers and personale were familiar with, maybe should have been posted in event flier, but thats part of the learning curve, next events will be better . just the ideal of setting your car for diffrent track surface,voltages,and I enjoy telling others about the Mail in -Proxy format. can't wait to get my car back to study the tune up tricks KDOG and TIM put on it as I'm building another and a RATT ROD for the FALL NATIONALS
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Post by nightrider on Jul 14, 2008 19:14:39 GMT -7
OMG  I forgot about PINEWOOD DERBY,, you are right! I want to thank Kevin and Tim also for inviting us to St.Louis and putting on a great event! The race does not need to be rerun. There will be more SS races and the brackets will be set as Sam stated.. See ya at the Fall Natoinals.. Chris |
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Post by da big ragu on Jul 14, 2008 19:25:26 GMT -7
 ok i think i said but maybe some other place on the board thanks to all had lots of fun lets do it again !!!!!! yeah i can read fall nats are coming  don't be late
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Post by Demon340 on Jul 14, 2008 21:04:59 GMT -7
Hey Guys
I have had a lot fun with these mail in races and the people I
have talk to and got some help from have been great. BUT I
feel like I am in NASCAR and just being a fill in for the fast cars
to beat up on. It would be good for the sport to have classes in
each category to give us racer a shot at going rounds and a win
that dont have the resource to build a super fast cars. May be
more members would start building cars and buy more parts
from our sponsors too. I did just a few things I saw on JETS
tuning tips and did my testing with dyno meter he showed and told how to make. I was happy with my cars performance
pickup from test and tune to the race. Well thats all I got to
say tonight who going to be the first one to smack me for saying
all this. TOM
P.S. Hey Walt thanks for your help too.
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Post by johnbalich on Jul 14, 2008 21:22:35 GMT -7
We have and are considering some different classification divisions for large fields......there are some schemes based on qualifying,,,,,then dividing the field into classes.....another scheme could involve taking all first round LOSERS and calling them class "C"
Then all SECOND round losers become class "B" in a 64 car field you would end up with 16 class A (after round two) 16 class B and 32 class c. EVERYONE gets at LEAST two rounds its more work at the meet but lots more racing and no one is on the trailer after only one round..
actually you could take it a step farther......every car that then loses in C becomes the D pool
now you have classes A B C and D with 16 car fields. NO ONE goes home without a few rounds.
There are likely other schemes as well. Chime in, it's just us all talking out loud....I'm curious if anyone likes this scheme I suggested, or am I all wet?
We could of course just use qualifying times as well Four classes of 16 doesnt insure the extra rounds for everyone, but it does mean you only race in a 16 car field.
this type of scheme could assist in oddball fields like 24 or 32 as well..
perhaps try it in ONE classification and see how its liked...
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Post by gm454 on Jul 14, 2008 21:51:00 GMT -7
John, That sounds sort of like some of the races I have been to in Illinois where they run a "Quick 32", "Quick 16" or "Quick 8" format where only the top 32, 16, or 8 qualifiers run in eliminations for the "Main Event" race of the weekend...all other entrants drop back to a separate bracket and run eliminations for the secondary show/less prize money that weekend. The difference here is that the classes A B C etc aren't determined during the elimination rounds, but it is divided up into two groups after qualifying...you only get two groups, A and B. At the Quick 8 and 16 shows the two groups aren't really equal in number like the idea you are talking about...the group B is usually much larger than the Group A ="Quick 8" or Group A="Quick 16" At those races the number of cars running for the money in the "Main Show" is pre-determined regardless of how many cars enter...for example there can be 50 cars show up for a "Quick 8" race, and the next time they hold the race it will be a "Quick 16" or "Quick 32". For purposes of the NTRA maybe the decison to do a "Quick 32" "Quick 16" or "Quick 8" format could be made after the deadline for entries are made and you see how many people are entered for each class. Whichever format (quick 32, quick 16 or quick 8) that more closely divides the field in half could be used and the top ~1/2 of the field race for the "main event" and the lower ~1/2 of the qualifers could be dropped back to a secondary bracket to race for a "b main". It might be logistically easier to divide into two groups vs dividing a large field into 4 groups so the hosts have to try to keep ladders straight for 4 groups in each class. Also just thinking out loud here.  |
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Post by Demon340 on Jul 14, 2008 21:55:33 GMT -7
Hey John
Glad to see the class thing being considered I like your first
way the best but both would work for me. May have to leave
it up to the track owner what works for him. May have to have a break out in case a car pick up alot speed each class but A.
Well lets see what other members think and I know you all
will make the right changes to make this fair and fun for all
of use.
TOM
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Post by dave hochallanged evans on Jul 15, 2008 1:52:19 GMT -7
on some of the local dirt tracks they run top 8 qualifiers in a race, then your a - b - c heats with the top two in each heat going to the main with the top 8 a-c heat placement determined by Q-times, just another input, I like Johns idea ,most would get more runs but the work load on the hosting track defiantly increases
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2008 5:00:37 GMT -7
Hi Guys & Gals, Well - I'm finally at a computer terminal that can post. What a turnout! 58 cars! Haven't seen that in quite a long time in HO drag racing. From what I can see in the pics Tim has quite a nice track - looks fabulous! I'm looking at those finish line posts and know that I've got a set like that in a box somewhere - gotta go find them. KDog - thanks for taking the time to host and do all the dirty work of mailing the cars back & forth, driving to & from Tim's place, running the cars and posting the info. Lots of hard work behind the scenes that no one knows about. Thanks. I'm humbled that my cars ran so well - I didn't expect to see them racing each other in the end. Pretty anti-climactic except for the fact that a Pontiac won overall. Didn't see that coming. I think Gary Mead voted that way though - I'm going to call him The Great Carnac from now on. Lots of time was spent on the dyno prepping the best combo of motor with magnets (LOTS of swapping parts around and testing on the dyno led to some high readings). Basically both cars were setup just like I'd do a fray road racing car (except for the motor magnets were stock & motor brushes were silver). Out of 5 chassis that I built these 2 were the only ones that came alive and ran well so they aren't for sale as they seem to be the only ones that I can make go fast so far. Glad to see a huge turnout! |
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Post by johnbalich on Jul 15, 2008 7:12:03 GMT -7
I will be 'interviewing' Tony about his car prep if he is agreeable. I will squeeze all possible 'secrets' from him.
U agree, that old sectional track looked great!! Really takes you back.......Even if I had a state of the art custom track, it would be cool to have an 'original' strip next to it!!
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Post by SKR on Jul 15, 2008 19:54:50 GMT -7
John, That sounds sort of like some of the races I have been to in Illinois where they run a "Quick 32", "Quick 16" or "Quick 8" format where only the top 32, 16, or 8 qualifiers run in eliminations for the "Main Event" race of the weekend...all other entrants drop back to a separate bracket and run eliminations for the secondary show/less prize money that weekend. The difference here is that the classes A B C etc aren't determined during the elimination rounds, but it is divided up into two groups after qualifying...you only get two groups, A and B. At the Quick 8 and 16 shows the two groups aren't really equal in number like the idea you are talking about...the group B is usually much larger than the Group A ="Quick 8" or Group A="Quick 16" At those races the number of cars running for the money in the "Main Show" is pre-determined regardless of how many cars enter...for example there can be 50 cars show up for a "Quick 8" race, and the next time they hold the race it will be a "Quick 16" or "Quick 32". For purposes of the NTRA maybe the decison to do a "Quick 32" "Quick 16" or "Quick 8" format could be made after the deadline for entries are made and you see how many people are entered for each class. Whichever format (quick 32, quick 16 or quick 8) that more closely divides the field in half could be used and the top ~1/2 of the field race for the "main event" and the lower ~1/2 of the qualifers could be dropped back to a secondary bracket to race for a "b main". It might be logistically easier to divide into two groups vs dividing a large field into 4 groups so the hosts have to try to keep ladders straight for 4 groups in each class. Also just thinking out loud here. Sounds great to me. What does everybody else think? We'll see some better/ closer racing using a system like this. |
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Post by johnbalich on Jul 15, 2008 20:00:46 GMT -7
myself..no preference......I just agree that classes within classsifications makes sense. The idea of deciding based on entries makes sense.........it even adds a touch of suspense !!
I know the average racer, Thats what I am for sure (or maybe I'm sub average) would appreciate a better chance to compete.
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I forgot about PINEWOOD DERBY,, you are right! 
don't be late 
