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Post by Eagle Racing on Apr 10, 2015 4:02:42 GMT -7
To add to the above I don't run pancake style chassis I know there are some of those Tha allow winding but unless I mistaken and i may be there isn't any inline classes that allow custom arms. Im not trying to change anything here the rules were here before I was so I'm good with what y'all have I have the one race a year I can run for now if I can get time to finish my track I might try to add one more to that. Lewis the N3 inline class allows Custom Winds up to 3ohms. This will be run at the Summer Nationals this year. The body type will be the Modern Funny Car. So wind that arm and slam that Funny Car body and lets have some fun. |
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Post by nosubfor3 on Apr 10, 2015 4:37:58 GMT -7
Remember this site was created to enhance the performance of a stock slot car chassis with tuning skills using readily available parts at a competitive cost.I have a friend who purchase a RTR chassis with a 1.0 ohm arm from a reputable builder and burned it up in four runs on my drag strip. The builder even set the chassis up according to my power supply.The chassis was torn down and cleaned after every pass as per the builders instructions.That was a quick $150.00 tossed away.Three words for those who want to use custom arms. Exhibition,Exhibition,Exhibition.If the Race Master agrees to it. Aurora chassis are 50 years old and the supply is becoming exhausted more and more as the years go by. A NOS T-jet is selling for almost as much as a stock inline. I have seen Tuff Ones chassis starting at $40.00,Magnatractions at $20.00 and so one. Even used T-Jets for $15.00-$20.00. Custom wound arms from the top 3 go for $25.00-$60.00. I just purchased 4 complete running AFX chassis with green wire arms for $40.00.Now we are fortunate enough to have new entries in our hobby such as Dash Motor Sports and Auto World.At some point in life we need to let go of the past and embarrass the future.We have started to adapt to the new chassis,so lets continue the trend. We all have ways of getting the most from our 50 year old friends. Why not apply our knowledge and experience to the new? Oh one other thing. Compare the entries of the custom wind class's to the Stock and mild build class's we run. The numbers say it all.
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Post by nosubfor3 on Apr 10, 2015 4:56:18 GMT -7
Ageed, just from the standpoint of time and care taken in process. So we sort through factory arms trying to find one superior to others. If keeping costs down is considered this can not help do so. A Yellow Jacket or one wound at home would be far more cost effective. I believe balancing is allowed in most classes other than stock....... curious, in what other aspects are non-factory arms considered superior ? Flat comm plates ? Trued shafts ? ........ Peter Peter it may be more cost affective for those who do the winding them self. I tried to wind my own many moons ago with disastrous results.Just not for me. Can I get a custom wind for $5.00 or so? |
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Post by jjwallace on Apr 10, 2015 5:39:40 GMT -7
I was the one that said I liked unlimited. I also said I dident like all the rules for the point that to a new guy like me they are confusing. I would rather run unlimited to see what I can do to a car and make it as fast as possible that's my point of view. That's what i like the challenge of that's also why I don't run all the other classes I will be at Dave's next race. I do agree that some classes should allow custom winds for the fact that I would really like to get into winding some more. If there is no classes for it then what is the point of learning it. Where I live its not like where you live in the Dallas fort worth area we don't have people here that are into slots to start a club and get together and race my only option is to proxy or drive 4 hours to the closest place to race and that would again be Dave's house. I don't have deep pockets but I still like the challenge of building something to squeeze every mph I can from it. In every class that's here each and every person here has a advantage over a new guy because of your knowledge I don't know the tips and tricks because I haven't been doing this or know people that have for years and years so the unlimited class is what I can be competitive in since that's all I know. So for now its Dave's race only for me. I don't mean for this to be hateful or smart i don't mean it that way at all just wanted to clear up what i was talking about with the rule and what i was meaning with custom winds. So please dont take it the wrong way. Alot of what I know now about the unlimited class is because of al pink and Dave. With a big thanks to all you guys for helping me out and find places to buy parts and things at a better price. Jeff I talks to fast eddies I'm going to order so bearings this weekend. Im working on a little treat to send to Dave's. Lewis your attitude is great and I don't mean anything in a bad way either. Here's the funny thing.....yes we live in Dallas area but we have yet to find anybody that drag races HO if you can believe that. I know it's hard for me to believe as well. Our club only consists of three people right now but we hope to pick up a few more as we go. I've only been doing this for about four years now. That's how long I've been a member. Took me a year before I was competitive, but I like challenges and I kept working at it with a very small budget and built some stock up during that time. I picked a couple of classes in the beginning and focused on them and have been adding more in as I've gone on. Don't let the rules confuse you and if you get confused, there are plenty of people here to explain. Unlimited inlines and pancakes are very interesting to me, but I do not have the location to run them and I just can't see ramping up everything I have to run a couple of unlimited builds when there are soooo many others to choose from. The learning curve of tuning is a fun one. I pretty much started from scratch and have learned almost all my tuning techniques right here on the forum. So with all that being said....don't just limit yourself to unlimited inlines. Pick a couple of other classes and get your feet wet. It's a blast. Listen....I am as competitive as they get, but I don't let it ruin my fun. I've done very well in the races since that first year and I am proud of that. Glad you are here and I hope you will race some of the other races as well. There is a learning curve, but it's all good. Thanks for posting. Jeff |
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Post by dave632 on Apr 10, 2015 5:45:49 GMT -7
A point no one has brought up is that custom arms are not mass produced and if everyone is running nothing but custom arms it would be harder for suppliers to keep up with the demand for parts. Each one is made only when you order it for your build and so the wait begins for your parts since most everyone I know that builds these custom parts also has a regular job outside of this hobby that too adds to your wait time.
My other thought is where do we race all these super hot cars? As of right now no one has the shutdown to run these high speed builds over 50 mph and if the answer to that is running at lower volts that's just plain dumb. You also need more amps then any wallpack will ever give you and controllers will be needing an upgrade to run these builds correctly on the track and at home testing.
(Lower Volts would be like running NHRA Top Fuel class but only on 93 octane pump gas. Why?)
But remember we do have a few classes that allow custom winds so why not give that a try before changing anymore rules? So running at a lower voltage is dumb, why has NHRA shortened the race length for TF and FC. In the past they have also lowered the amount of Nitro allowed to slow the cars down. They were trying to save some lives and equipment, here we are just trying to save equipment. Seems like the opposite is true here where slower cars are given more volts to make them look better. I also say if I am beating you at 20 volts I will beat you by a bigger margin at 26 volts. No one is asking you to run in a class you don't want to. Trying to give racers more options and classes seems like it will bring in more racers. Allow us to pick and choose what we like and ignore what we don't want to race in. Lewis likes to see how quick he can make his cars go. I surely see nothing wrong with that. I am looking forward to his fast cars running at my future races. There is also no need to change any rules, just add an Outlaw or Experimental class at the top of the chain where custom winds are allowed in T Jet, AFX and Inline. If I am not mistaken in the rules there are a couple of X classes that are not filled in yet, X4 and X5. here is the spot for a top class for those cars. There are enough classes for beginners on this site. The bracket race, (perfect class for beginners), I held did not bring many entries. Lets us have some classes for those who want to see how quick we can go. There will surely be those at any race I hold. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 5:47:03 GMT -7
I have said before, and I think I read in this thread, ..... going really really fast is fun and expensive. but in order to really enjoy it the track must be equiped to handle the speed. in other words shut down must be adequate. you can have the most expensive custom track in the world, the bestest power supply, supercalifragilistic controllererers but if the car crashes at the end of the shut down and cannot run anymore, the fun is GONE.
I don't mind blowing up $160-200 in parts as long as the car moves. but to have a 100 MPH pass into a concrete wall, well THAT is self defeatist.
ask Lewis how much fun it was to watch a car he kept tuning on go from fastest in the field to unseeable only to have it disintegrate into pieces upon using up all the shut down, going through the "sand trap"(cushion) and having the car slam into a trophy.
the quickest pass and then not being able to go another round is frustrating.
which, is why, many prefer to run cars that have minimal monetary investment, aren't going to go the full length of the shut down and they can see the pass.
then we come to the guy with 24 feet to put his track in and insists on having a 1/64 scale 1/4 mile which is 20 feet 7.5 inches. so needing some room for the cars to sit on the track we add 4.5 inches( barely enough but this is an example ). so now we have 21 feet of our available 24 feet for the powered section of the track, leaving a scant 3(THREE) FEET OF NON-POWERED SHUT DOWN. shunted rails(dynamic braking) and even reverse polarity(enhanced dynamic braking) on the rails will help some cars, but only a few. the momentum will carry most cars right to the end.
now do we think our friend has left any room between the end of that 24 feet and a wall?
of course not, he would have extended the shut down as far as he could, so, there is the wall.
a foam rubber barrier you say? rebounds the car at about the same force it hit with. you figure out the consequences.
so, as enjoyable as it is to have a scale 1/4 mile to race on, few of the cars stop safely.
if you want to go ultra fast, you must have enough shut down to insure the safety of the cars.
even stock t-jets get up to or above 10 MPH. if you want to experience how fast THAT is put your hand in front of the car at the finish line.
medium build cars of any type are generating 30+ MPH and don't stop easily. if it took 20 feet 7.5 inches to get to that speed it needs quite a bit of room to slow down in.
Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry once told his superior officer that "a man has to know his limitations!".
meant as an insult there, it is still a good idea to keep in mind.
I have 18 feet total room for my drag strip. so I made a 1/64 scale 1/8 mile.
18 divided by three is 6.
so I have three 6 foot sections.
two sections are powered and have the timing sensors (10 feet 3.75 inches) within the 12 fet of powered track area.
6 feet of shut down is 1/4 inch deep, ONE inch wide, six feet long steel strips.
4(four) of them.
the space between two of the parallel steel strips forms the groove for the guide pin.
cars with traction magnets shut down pretty darn good, but fast cars, even WITH traction magnets get to the end.
I dedicated 1/3 of the room I have to stopping the cars.
" a man has to know his limitations "
not to be all about patting myself on the back, but I respect how folks have taken time to make their cars look really, really good and I want them to keep looking good at the end of the pass.
I also respect that folks all have different values and opinions and each of those values has merit.
if you want to run 21 feet of powered track into a 3(THREE) feet of un-powered shutdown, that is quite OK. just don't expect me to submit MY cars to that punishment.
again, fast cars are fun and I alwyas have some in case someone shows up with a big mouth.
but slow cars that race side by side and some times trade the lead a couple times in a pass is much more gratifying to me.
in closing, while you can order rewound arms at factory spec, you might as well order a HOT arm with advanced timing and build around it with the parts that suit the armature.
even completely stock t-jet 16 OHM cars benefit greatly from simple upgrades like braid and shunts.
I like the KISS method
Keep
It
Simple
Silly
!
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Post by dave632 on Apr 10, 2015 6:04:56 GMT -7
Remember this site was created to enhance the performance of a stock slot car chassis with tuning skills using readily available parts at a competitive cost.I have a friend who purchase a RTR chassis with a 1.0 ohm arm from a reputable builder and burned it up in four runs on my drag strip. The builder even set the chassis up according to my power supply.The chassis was torn down and cleaned after every pass as per the builders instructions.That was a quick $150.00 tossed away.Three words for those who want to use custom arms. Exhibition,Exhibition,Exhibition.If the Race Master agrees to it. Aurora chassis are 50 years old and the supply is becoming exhausted more and more as the years go by. A NOS T-jet is selling for almost as much as a stock inline. I have seen Tuff Ones chassis starting at $40.00,Magnatractions at $20.00 and so one. Even used T-Jets for $15.00-$20.00. Custom wound arms from the top 3 go for $25.00-$60.00. I just purchased 4 complete running AFX chassis with green wire arms for $40.00.Now we are fortunate enough to have new entries in our hobby such as Dash Motor Sports and Auto World.At some point in life we need to let go of the past and embarrass the future.We have started to adapt to the new chassis,so lets continue the trend. We all have ways of getting the most from our 50 year old friends. Why not apply our knowledge and experience to the new? Oh one other thing. Compare the entries of the custom wind class's to the Stock and mild build class's we run. The numbers say it all. I don't know if I am doing anything different from others but I have several pancakes that read under 1 ohm that have many passes on them, with only occasional cleaning ,without any failures. I did have one that was in the 1.5 ohm range fail. I have also had some stock mean greens fail. I have not had any hot Inlines fail. Of course the most popular classes will be the lower cost and easier to prepare. This is as it should be. I intend to run in a lot of those myself. Just leave room at the top for those who want to go for the upper limit. If we only ran stock T jets here I surely would not have ever joined yet I have even raced those. |
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Post by dave632 on Apr 10, 2015 6:29:25 GMT -7
As far as shutdown goes I have had excellent results with my setup even at near 60mph. I have had the body come off of many AFX style type cars but their mounting system is poor, not the ones with the screw mount however. Never even broke a body yet. Chassis have held up without ever having a problem.
I do have 7' of shutdown however with 3' of bar stock and a good catch box. The 50mph + cars are hitting the catch box at 20-30 mph with no damage so it must work. It is padded in felt on all sides and of course in the center with 10" of felt, cloth, bubble wrap and finally 2" of sponge.
The guy who tried to stop cars on a 21 foot track with only 3' of shutdown and no other provisions has got to be a complete fool or is clueless.
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Post by Phantom B.S.E. on Apr 10, 2015 6:33:32 GMT -7
I got an idea for those guys that want to build outlaw everything, just do it, and find a host track to run your builds like a little grudge match. If you share all the fun you and others are having with the rest of us maybe others will follow. I bet dave632 would be more then willing to run a no points outlaw grudge match for everyone that wishes to give it a try.
Who knows, if the cars look really good and the event results the same maybe you will get more people to join in on the fun.
But if all you guys are going to do is talk well, talk is a lot cheaper then building an outlaw slot car.
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Post by Phantom B.S.E. on Apr 10, 2015 6:39:24 GMT -7
Just my 2 cents, but if cars are run on anything less then 24 volts it's not outlaw in my book or any of the record books I have seen for HO slot cars.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 7:00:40 GMT -7
TO add a little more !! R&D Racing is now a FACTORY!   This should allow me to take a destroyed arm blank and wind it as long as it meets the ORIGINAL specs when first introduced to the markets. From there I can follow the NTRA rules and take those arms and balance etc. ALan |
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lewis
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Post by lewis on Apr 10, 2015 7:38:55 GMT -7
Thanks Alan for letting me know of the class. I know alot of guys tracks cant handle these cars. I would really like to see a limited ohm arm but kind of anything goes around that arm that may be what the class you are talking about is I'm not sure. Jeff I visited a place in grand prairie late last year if I remember correct its calls crazy eddies they have gobs of parts and cars. I have a business card from there I will look at it in a few and give you the number. The owner is awesome guy. He may be able to help you find some more interested people. Unfortunately I stopped driving over the road so I wont be back down that way for a while to go there he is about the cheapest place i have seen to buy cars and tracks.
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lewis
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Post by lewis on Apr 10, 2015 7:43:15 GMT -7
Jeff I messed up all the way around. Its in Irving tx. And its wild bills.
Wild Bill's Hobby Shop
535 E Shady Grove Rd
Irving, TX 75060
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Post by dave632 on Apr 10, 2015 8:09:35 GMT -7
I am surely open to any challenges and welcome them. No one wants to chance running such fast cars on their track because of possible breakage even at 20 volts and that is understandable. I am sure with more amperage these cars will go a lot faster. With 2 fully charged 12 volt batteries in parallel, (such batteries can read near 28 volts total), 100 mph is not out of the question and no track on this site will handle that.
Limiting voltage is the only way I can see to effectively limit the speeds reached. If current is limited that will completely kill performance. At 26 volts and 1 amp the quick cars would hardly move. Without my 2 10 amp supplies in parallel top speeds have gone down 5-10mph on the fast cars.
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Post by sjracer on Apr 10, 2015 8:26:55 GMT -7
Peter, I'm just curious how many people do you think would enter the class/send cars? Today's races in a stock class has 16 cars but less than 10 builders in a low budget stock class? I don'y even run the MMPS class because I feel it's to expensive. I was looking for an arm for the X3 class as you mentioned but I pulled out because I didn't think I had enough time to order one, have it sent to me, build and test the car. So, I was limited to what I currently had in my stash. As far as using custom wound arms,and high performance parts I was told by two of the best H.O drag car builders ( Jim Sgrig and Alan Galinko) if you want a fast unlimited car you start with a fast car. In other words what they were saying was they get a stock car tuned well first and then add the different parts. To do it any other way would be disastrous you would burn up chassis(es) and motors and might not ever make a pass. Putting in high performance parts in a pancake may make you faster than than a stock car but but won't even put you in the ballpark when it comes to being near the top. To be quit honest it all comes down to simple tuning a car if you can't tune tune and make a stock x traction competitive then putting a custom arm in it along with polymer magnets,shunt and/or braid will make you faster but it is very unlikely you'll win the class you may not even be competitive. What I have learned about this hobby is that knowledge is power and you can't skip the fundamentals. I agree with Phantom race them in grudge matches and see if the interest picks up.
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