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Post by skillet on Sept 19, 2023 2:20:21 GMT -7
My scale is close to Pete's... under 50 I'm in ceramic... over 50 under 100 I'm in poly... neo will go way over 100... 300 something if I remember correctly
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Post by pete on Sept 19, 2023 8:26:22 GMT -7
Build test build test build test, make it quicker.
I will speak for myself. I will be sending what I hope is my quickest super stock. I have what must be over 40 hours of build and test time on this car alone. This type of chassis, I have 4 years of tuning and testing. Ups and downs all the way. I have taken builds apart because I know they won't race well. Only to take it apart a few more times till I like what I see.
I spend money and time, smile and cry. The biggest factor, what is the most expensive to me, where I spend most of my money racing, is my time. When you see my car on the track, know it has the same parts as yours, the differance is the time.
If it was just buying parts everyone would be fast
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Post by dave632 on Sept 19, 2023 8:57:40 GMT -7
I have been away from the scene for a while. I put together a couple of cars for the race since I sold off many of my cars. They run well on my track, but I have 2 30-amp power supplies which do not match what others are using so my results may be different. I simply went with level 4 motor magnets on the inlines. They read 750-850 on my meter which seems about average. Let's not go crazy worrying about magnets, I have had braid make a much bigger performance difference than magnets in the past.
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Post by gramps on Sept 19, 2023 22:24:51 GMT -7
Gramps would like to send in:
1) inline Super Stock
1) T-jet Comp
1) Pro Street Outlaw
1) 4 - gear Outlaw
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Post by pennywize619 on Sept 19, 2023 22:44:58 GMT -7
Gramps you're in.
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Post by jjwallace on Sept 20, 2023 6:10:04 GMT -7
I have been away from the scene for a while. I put together a couple of cars for the race since I sold off many of my cars. They run well on my track, but I have 2 30-amp power supplies which do not match what others are using so my results may be different. I simply went with level 4 motor magnets on the inlines. They read 750-850 on my meter which seems about average. Let's not go crazy worrying about magnets, I have had braid make a much bigger performance difference than magnets in the past. I completely agree with this statement. I haven't read into all of the posts regarding magnets but the rules were written to try and provide as level a playing field as possible. As more and more new magnets, parts, chassis are introduced, the rules will need to be adjusted to accommodate those new items. But sometimes there will be gray areas. We can work through any of that as well. I know that last year before the Kiwi Challenge, Gnome attempted to provide info. for everyone to modify a particular common digital scale to read magnets that would have some consistency from racer to racer. Gauss meters are expensive and most of us do not have one. FYI.... we allow several of the chassis that have the weak polys, etc. in Inline Super Stock to help with that particular gray area. Because we know the stock DR-1 chassis (and others) have polymers but they are weak. As a Racemaster I have a hard time running the Inline Stock, Super Stock, Comp because there are so many different magnets out there now. It's hard to tell the difference between the ceramic and the polys and I am admittedly not that knowledgable with those and we don't disassemble cars for tech. Sometimes it is a very tough call to make because I don't want to be wrong. Anyway....for what it's worth. |
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Post by ecbill on Sept 20, 2023 13:51:13 GMT -7
I have been away from the scene for a while. I put together a couple of cars for the race since I sold off many of my cars. They run well on my track, but I have 2 30-amp power supplies which do not match what others are using so my results may be different. I simply went with level 4 motor magnets on the inlines. They read 750-850 on my meter which seems about average. Let's not go crazy worrying about magnets, I have had braid make a much bigger performance difference than magnets in the past. I completely agree with this statement. I haven't read into all of the posts regarding magnets but the rules were written to try and provide as level a playing field as possible. As more and more new magnets, parts, chassis are introduced, the rules will need to be adjusted to accommodate those new items. But sometimes there will be gray areas. We can work through any of that as well. I know that last year before the Kiwi Challenge, Gnome attempted to provide info. for everyone to modify a particular common digital scale to read magnets that would have some consistency from racer to racer. Gauss meters are expensive and most of us do not have one. FYI.... we allow several of the chassis that have the weak polys, etc. in Inline Super Stock to help with that particular gray area. Because we know the stock DR-1 chassis (and others) have polymers but they are weak. As a Racemaster I have a hard time running the Inline Stock, Super Stock, Comp because there are so many different magnets out there now. It's hard to tell the difference between the ceramic and the polys and I am admittedly not that knowledgable with those and we don't disassemble cars for tech. Sometimes it is a very tough call to make because I don't want to be wrong. Anyway....for what it's worth. Have to agree with you Jeff. It’s really hard tell what type of magnets you are dealing with, on the in-line cars. The Super G+ and derivatives, are especially difficult to determine. Taking them out an measuring them on whatever type of device you use is about the only way to be sure. Speaking of Gnome’s mini scale magnet reader, it works pretty consistently for measuring the magnets out of the car. It’s supposed to be good for measuring the magnetic down force and pick up spring tension but i haven’t gotten that far with it yet. |
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Post by pete on Sept 20, 2023 14:53:31 GMT -7
Good tool Bill, write down the numbers of total down force, then you can have a general base number. One thing I saw using the scale with magnet face down. I could have two magnets with gauss within a few points, when face down it wasn't giving me an even number on gram pull. Reason being I guess magnets can be stronger on one side and not the other, I think total overall strengh is more important than the strongest reading in one spot which is what a gauss meter will show.
JJ where are these allowances? Are they written down someplace?
Reason I ask, stacking traction magnets was a thing. This was a practice I believe was with the DR1. maybe it was in the pancake class. My point being if its not written down it shouldn't be allowed. I understand it gives lee way for the race masters in forming the race rules. I raced three years before I heard of these exceptions. I was glad when it stopped.
I don't like gray areas. If they need to be, they should be made known where the line is and everyone knows what to expect. .
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Post by skillet on Sept 20, 2023 18:52:52 GMT -7
Yha stacking magnets got me to. That's why I started spelling that out in my sign up for race's... stacking magnets were everywhere Eric. All chassis. I thought well what the he'll. That's more than two magnets lol.
I think we are going to need to set something up for dr1. They are a hot item because they fit our resin bodies for an inline car.
And it won't be easy. I do like lowering the traction magnets. Way better performance. But that puts us in chassis modification because you have to cut the pocket bottom out... well once you cut your chassis it's technically in a different class. Some inlines you can't lower traction magnets, that's how the stacked magnets started , I think. Probably could run stacked magnets with lowered magnets, example lowered = cut pocket out of traction magnet holder... stacked = add shim washer magnet under my tyco 440x2... then if none of that's allowed and someone (me) makes there own traction magnet with epoxy and a magnet inside that allows it to sit lower... there are more than 3 ways to look at all of it... it's a tough conversation...
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Post by skillet on Sept 20, 2023 18:54:31 GMT -7
Eric... on pancake magnets... one side is stronger than the other... you want the strong side to pull on your armature, depending on wich way the arm spins... and the weak side of the magnets to release the arm when it spins...
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Post by pennywize619 on Sept 21, 2023 3:27:24 GMT -7
When I 1st joined this forum I came across a thread about building a mountain motor pro stock for inline comp which calls for ceramic grade motor magnets. In the thread they suggested using level 4 motor magnets so I always assumed level 4 and under poly magnets were considered ceramic grade. For the pancake classes the rules do call out the motor magnets that are acceptable. I have a dr1 with .490 tires and I got it down to .33xx at about 40mph using the jag N50 traction magnets in the stock location. I really don't see the need to lower the magnets with a .490 max tire (inline super stock max size) if you can get that speed and time out of them in the stock location. I wouldn't mind seeing if it helps but I don't want to cut one of my chassis lol. Maybe it's just me but when I read the rule about traction magnets in the stock location I think of forward and backwards and left and right movement not up and down. I agree with Skillet stacked magnets are more than 2 magnets.
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Post by pete on Sept 21, 2023 6:03:53 GMT -7
Think of what the magnetic field looks like of a two magnets stacked. You no longer have a north and south, you have magnet quadrants. Yes you have created more downforce, but that is not only why it gets faster. It gets faster because you have a such a better motor field. A better one that nobody else with a north and south magnet has. Sam had a good key word "Modified"
Again, I just want it be known you can do it, or that you can't do it.
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Post by jjwallace on Sept 21, 2023 7:34:56 GMT -7
Good tool Bill, write down the numbers of total down force, then you can have a general base number. One thing I saw using the scale with magnet face down. I could have two magnets with gauss within a few points, when face down it wasn't giving me an even number on gram pull. Reason being I guess magnets can be stronger on one side and not the other, I think total overall strengh is more important than the strongest reading in one spot which is what a gauss meter will show. JJ where are these allowances? Are they written down someplace? Reason I ask, stacking traction magnets was a thing. This was a practice I believe was with the DR1. maybe it was in the pancake class. My point being if its not written down it shouldn't be allowed. I understand it gives lee way for the race masters in forming the race rules. I raced three years before I heard of these exceptions. I was glad when it stopped. I don't like gray areas. If they need to be, they should be made known where the line is and everyone knows what to expect. . Eric for Inline Stock the rules show what chassis are NOT allowed under the Miscellaneous heading and under SS and all other Classes it says No Restrictions. I agree with you. If it is not stated it should not be allowed. I do not like gray at all in the rules and I am more than happy to clear things up as we go. But no matter how much we go over and over the rules, there is always stuff that isn't covered or is overlooked. I did not write the current rules format, but I was one in a group that approved them. The complaint before the reworking was "the rules were too detailed".....LMAO  . Now in a lot of cases they are not detailed enough. I will see if I can make that more clear for the other Inline Classes. I am a fan of clear and precise rules. Stacking of traction magnets or oversized magnets was in the pancake classes and is a pet peave of mine. I have never like that. There is a lot of "No Restrictions" in the Inline Classes and that leaves a lot of room for racers to test the limits of the rules.....and trust me they are tested. I would eventually like to get some of that a little more precise if possible. Thank you for your comments.  |
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Post by jjwallace on Sept 21, 2023 7:46:29 GMT -7
Think of what the magnetic field looks like of a two magnets stacked. You no longer have a north and south, you have magnet quadrants. Yes you have created more downforce, but that is not only why it gets faster. It gets faster because you have a such a better motor field. A better one that nobody else with a north and south magnet has. Sam had a good key word "Modified" Again, I just want it be known you can do it, or that you can't do it. I've often wondered if traction magnets being oversized and/or stacked if they could have an affect on the motor. Most of them are neo and they are certainly close enough to have an affect. For that reason alone I don't like it. I addressed that in the rules last year stating under Traction Magnets heading in all Pancake Classes except Unlimited...."2 maximum mounted in stock location. No oversize magnets".  |
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. Now in a lot of cases they are not detailed enough. I will see if I can make that more clear for the other Inline Classes. I am a fan of clear and precise rules. Stacking of traction magnets or oversized magnets was in the pancake classes and is a pet peave of mine. I have never like that.