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Post by SKR on Jul 13, 2010 19:49:22 GMT -7
Hey guys, This is a hot topic on some of the 1/1 Drag forums after the tragedy from last weekends Seattle race along with the Pro Stock controversy of the NHRA not spraying traction compound past 1000'. For the P/S guys....It sounds more to me like the track was kind of junk at the top end with all the bumps. It will be very interesting to see what comes from all of this. 1000' could very well be the future of NHRA racing. www.competitionplus.com/index.php/drag-racing/editorials/14891-bobby-bennett-its-time-for-all-1000
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Post by allstarhr on Jul 14, 2010 10:36:33 GMT -7
Wow Sam! You take a very tough subject and expect a yes or no answer? There's a lot to this one and you've hit another of my hot buttons.
Reasons for 1320'. 1. Tradition 2. Safer for Pro Stock and Sportsman cars following the fuel cars at national event tracks. 3. Adds .5 sec. to the "show" of each run. 4. Makes it easier for "rich kids" to buy a ride and win if they can't drive as well as the top drivers. (Can't produce a hole-shot but can buy the best parts, crew and crew-chief.) 5. Makes the crew, crew chief and quality parts more important to winning as they have more distance to drive around a hole-shot. 6. Makes the history of National Records for 1320 remain relevant. 7. This only effects the 18 NHRA national event tracks anyway, so why try to change all tracks? 8. Shortens the waiting time for some racers to meet their maker.
Reasons for 1000' 1. Some of the 1320 tracks shutdown is too short for 280+ mph cars and even sportsman cars when they get in trouble. Approximately 90% of the tracks in the country have had a sportsman car off the end of the track. 2. 1000' racing for F/C and T/F while all others run 1320 means NHRA can't spray past the finish-line or it hurts the fuel cars. 3. Less track to clean up and spray reduces downtime and costs and improves the show for spectators. 4. NHRA wouldn't have to change rules to slow the fuel cars down as drastically which would reduce costs to pro teams. They would not have to buy new equipment and sell off the inventory they have at a cheap price when NHRA makes the change to keep fuel cars from 340 mph. 6. Shorter distance is safer for all cars at any track. 7. Easier/cheaper to acquire enough land to build additional tracks. 8. Makes it easier for "rich kids" to buy a ride and win if they can't drive as well as the top drivers. (Can't produce a hole-shot but can buy the best parts, crew and crew-chief.) 9. Hurts the image of drag racing to the public when someone dies that would have lived at a shorter distance and slower speed. 10. The car I drive everyday on public highways requires a roll bar and helmet for me to make a run at the track that will not be quicker than what I do on highway on ramps. Shortening the distance would eliminate the need for safety equipment that is currently required and therefore allow many owners of new cars with over 400 HP to compete. 11. Because of the reduced costs/hassle of running a high HP, licensed street car at the local dragstrip, it would increase the participation at the track and keep more tracks in business and possibly increase the number of tracks open for business.
In conclusion: I've watched both 1000' and many, many 1320' races and to me it's not that big a deal. I would rather watch quicker accelerating cars that shut off at 1000' than slower accelerating cars that run the same top speed in 1320'. I want to race my street car at my local track and it's too illogical with the current conditions in place. For these reasons and as someone who has had to talk to the family of the driver and has worked with the tracks top end crew on bad wrecks, I'm for the shorter distance.
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Post by allstarhr on Jul 14, 2010 10:48:08 GMT -7
Oh! I forgot to rant about Pro Stock... The bodies don't look anything like the real car anymore so why not add more down-force with a wing? Oh, and to keep them straight, why not make them like funny car wings? Or is it that the spectator demands the cars get crossed up and on their roofs from time to time or they aren't worth watching? After all if NHRA rules make them stick so well they could run in the rain they might as well be racing slot cars. Hey, that's it! Cut a groove in the track and make em just like slot cars! (Yes, my tongue is firmly in my cheek.)
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Post by Demon340 on Jul 14, 2010 16:56:41 GMT -7
I think they should run all the classes a 1000'. Most tracks are running 1/8 mile now and most NAT. events don't have grand stands near the finish line anyway. DEMON
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Post by SKR on Jul 14, 2010 19:33:28 GMT -7
Lots of good points for 1000' and 1320'. I think we can all agree that Drag Racing is a dangerous sport and that the guys and gals do take risk every time they get into their cars. When the NHRA first went to 1000' in T/F and F/C, we didn't see nearly as many motor explosions like we do now which leads me to suspect that costs have risen with the pressure of trying to be competitive and with the teams getting a handle on making the cars accelerate quicker. Would a 1000' track saved Scotts, Nivers or Parkers life? Nobody knows. Everyone is quick to say that shorter distances are safer and with some of the short shut down areas at today’s tracks, there's no argument from me there. I do feel what is more important is that the NHRA mandates a spec shut down length. If a track can't provide the amount of land required, then that track becomes 1000' for all Pro classes. If the track has a lot of shut down room, let them run a 1/4 mile. Get some engineers input on making sand pits more efficient and get rid of any walls at the very end............ that should never be a last resort. It just simply says to me that the track wasn't built for anything fast. Just my 2 cents. It will be interesting to see what becomes of it all. Phil, I do agree with you on how Pro Stocks look these days. Not much like the showroom models but do look much more recognizable as far as brands than the Funny Cars. Leave the big wings off the P/S cars and make them run a true spec body of the showroom models. Keep the big scoops and air spoils they run now. That would slow them down.......... or would it be cheaper for the NHRA to get some balls and have these tracks take care of the bumps? Not too mention spray the right traction compound... as was Arizona's case
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Post by rapidrichard on Jul 14, 2010 20:27:52 GMT -7
I Think All Pro Classes and alcohol Classes Run 1/8 Mile And Stock,Superstock,Comp,And All Super Classes Run 1/4 Mile The Track Insurance Would Be Less,And Tickets Should be Less? We Run 1/8 Mile For All Our Bracket Points Races. Run Half The Distance For The Same Money And Points And Save On Wear And Tear On Car,It Cost A Pro Mod 1,000 Dollars A Run And Thats Not Breaking Anything Richard
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Post by allstarhr on Jul 15, 2010 10:23:48 GMT -7
Sam, How timely are you? Jeff Burk just posted the article below on his dragracingonline.com site. For those drag racing fans who don't visit it regularily, your missing something good.
Pros and cons regarding the 1,000-ft track distance By Jeff Burk
I was one of the first to call for a shorter track for the NHRA professional classes and I am an advocate of slowing down the nitro cars. My reasoning for both opinions hasn’t changed.
When I made these suggestion I believed -- and still do -- that a majority of the NHRA tracks are simply too short for Top Fuel or Funny Cars to get stopped easily and safely if the driver is in any sort of trouble. The definition of trouble would be multiple failures such as a hung throttle and no chutes, or a bad fire and no brakes, or some other combination of problems that would occur at speeds above, say, 250 mph.
With the recent deaths of sportsman racers Neal Parker and Mark Niver, many of the people that were dead set against shortening the track for Top Fuel and Funny Car are suddenly writing letters and flooding the boards demanding that the NHRA shorten the distance and insinuating that the supposed “short” tracks were responsible for those two veteran drivers’ deaths.
At the risk of being accused of being a hypocrite, my opinion is that neither of the two recent deaths can be tied to the length of the race tracks.
Here is my reasoning to support my opinion regarding this. First, let’s look at what we know about both deaths. In both instances the drivers drove straight as an arrow into the shutoff area and the restraining fence. I’ve watched both crashes over and over and in both cases it appears that neither driver was driving an out of control race car.
You could see that Mark Nivers was on the brakes and driving his car. It looked to me like he was making minor steering corrections up to the point his dragster entered the sand trap. In the case of Neal Parker it didn’t appear he was having any trouble driving the car.
I didn’t personally know Nivers but I have watched him make a lot of passes and he was in my opinion a very competent driver. On the other hand I did know Neal Parker and watched him man-handle his blown altereds on many a pass. I believe that if he was in control of his alky Funny Car he would have probably spun that car out or driven it into the wall before he would have driven it into the sand at over 200 mph.
So, it is my opinion, based on 40 years of participation in and observation of drag racing, that the track distance had little to do with these two drivers’ deaths.
Immediately after Parker’s death I called my old friend and driver Whit Bazemore to talk about the tracks. I called him for his opinion for several reasons. He has been on fire at speed in nitro cars on more than one occasion. He also has had chute failure on a 325-mph pass, so I asked him if he thought the tracks were unsafe. His answer surprised me somewhat. He said that he didn’t think the tracks were unsafe and that included racing nitro cars on the quarter mile.
He related to me several instances where he had to stop his Funny Car and Top Fueler after a full pass and no chutes. He stressed that he felt with properly installed carbon fiber brakes -- especially on a Nitro Funny Car -- he could stop safely on any of the NHRA tracks. He is not the only NHRA driver/tuner/team owner that feels that way.
So here we are at another crossroads. Should all NHRA drag racing be on 1,000-foot or shorter tracks? Most of the nitro racers and crew chiefs I’ve talked to do not want to return to a quarter-mile track, both for safety and financial reasons. I don’t think most sportsman racers necessarily want to either.
I think the problem that needs to be addressed is not track length but better cars and better sand traps and catch fences. One thing the clip of the Niver crash proved beyond a shadow of a doubt is that the car’s wheels didn’t sink into the sand. So we need a better trap and a “softer” catch fence.
On the subject of the cars, I checked and carbon fiber brakes aren’t mandatory for alky Funny Cars or dragsters. That rule has to change immediately. Carbon fiber brakes should be mandatory. I would even say that carbon fiber brakes ought to be mandatory for Pro Stock and Pro Mod.
The NHRA also needs to determine why the chutes are being pulled off of these cars, as was the case with both Mark Niver and Alexis DeJoria, and fix that problem.
I still believe that a shorter track for the nitro cars is absolutely necessary as well as some solution that will keep the cars under 325 mph. But I don’t believe a shorter track will make Pro Stock, Pro Mod and the alcohol classes any safer.
As I have said before, it isn’t the speed that kills the driver, it's the sudden stop.
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Post by slotman55 on Jul 15, 2010 17:51:04 GMT -7
I just attended a ADRL race in Topeka last week that has a very long track and they were running all 5 of their extreme classes at 1/8 mile. The racing was just as good to watch but they put 3 promods and one bike in the wall or on their top Friday and 2 more on a rain shorten Saturday. I think NHRA should stick to 1000' for T/F and F/C give P/S the wing back they took away glue all the way and find out why those chutes failed.
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Post by SKR on Jul 16, 2010 6:18:31 GMT -7
Phil, I'd have to say I disagree with Jeff's comments that running a shorter track for Fuel cars is absolutely necessary. I'd like to see the tracks that can handle them still run at a 1/4 mile and then shorten the track if they can't handle them. I think it would mix things up a bit watching the fuel cars and Pro Stocks compete on different lengths though out the year. They are professionals and should be able to adapt. This would also get rid of the track glue debate for P/S by having those guys run the same distance as the Fuel cars for the weekend. The cars are getting faster, we just need tracks that can handle them and safer methods of getting them stopped. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the timed section at Bonneville Salt Flats gets shorter every time someone crashes. I'm just saying ..................
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Post by da big ragu on Jul 16, 2010 9:58:16 GMT -7
well i say let it stay 1/4 mile or 1/8 if the track can't get any longer and run the big boys were they can and just make it longer for safety drag racing was a 1/4 mile right? yes we don't want anybody getting hurt. so they should just make it safer...... my 1penny . ;D
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