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Post by allstarhr on May 13, 2009 18:52:27 GMT -7
 We've had a few comments over the last year or so as to the best way to run races where cars do qualify. Typically qualifying is held where all cars get the same number of passes down the track to determine qualifying position. Once that is done, it's time to pair them up for first round. Even if that's done right it can be tough to get the second round and beyond paired up so you have the right pair of cars racing each other from a ladder sheet. I ran full size tracks about 30 years ago and know how difficult this is with full size cars and people who are NOT listening to the track officials. (little of my left over frustration showing?) Anyway, I made some foam ladder sheets where the cars can be placed in the right qualifying position, (the tires will not be damaged on the soft foam craft sheet) and they WILL be paired to race the right car for round after round till a winner is determined. This picture is the 2009 SS/A Class paired up for the first round of the SS Springnationals last month. Makes our races easy using the sheets with NO RE-RUNS! (more pent up frustration showing.) Hope this helps you run your races as it has me. |
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Post by allstarhr on May 13, 2009 18:57:00 GMT -7
 On a side note... we kept Kdogs cars cagged until 1st round as the dog failed to provide rabies shot records with his cars. ;D |
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Post by allstarhr on May 13, 2009 19:01:26 GMT -7
 09 SS/C twelve car field loaded on sheet 1 or 2. This is 1 sheet of the 2 sheets req'd. for a 16 car field. We had 12 entries in SS/C so the spots for car 13 thru 16 were empty and the car they were to race had a bye run into the next round without our having to "think". For instance, 5 ran 12 and the winner was put into the box in front of them to race #4 who had a bye run. Easy! Also notice that there is a qualifying number inside the box in front of the car for a 16 car field where two sheets are needed and in the back of the box behind each car is a number for an 8 car field just in case that's all the cars in a class. Since we were using 16 car fields you will notice that I put the cars in the box toward the back of the box to make it easy to see the box or qualifying number. The car numbers were written on the bottom of the car and I turned the cars over when I was loading them on the sheets to make it easy to get the right car to the right box. Once all were on the foam sheet I turned them over as you see them now. |
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Post by allstarhr on May 13, 2009 19:05:36 GMT -7
 SS/B loaded on the foam sheets for 1st Round. Two foam sheets will allow anyone to run any number of 16 car classes correctly without too much hassle. If you go to 32 or 64 car fields, it would just take more sheets that were marked off correctly. I personally like the way the NTRA is doing it with multiple 16 car classes as it would almost be impossible for number 32 to take out number 1 first round unless the #1 car driver was a red lighting screw up. (No Demon, I wasn't talking about you.) |
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Post by Demon340 on May 13, 2009 19:17:48 GMT -7
Hey Phil I thought you said that was the menu of SS cars for the
GATOR to eat. All he had to do was pick them out bye the number.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by dave hochallanged evans on May 14, 2009 7:02:33 GMT -7
A regular SomeMorGasBoord
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Post by rickvoegelin on May 18, 2009 7:59:27 GMT -7
Phil,
This is a great system, and I plan to adopt it for our next race! I know what you mean about racers not listening to the PA . . .
On our first time around to eliminate bye runs, I advanced the Low ET loser from the previous round so there was a pairing in every slot. The crowd gets surly when they have to watch singles <g>.
Thanks,
Rick V.
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Post by allstarhr on May 28, 2009 11:09:01 GMT -7
We've been doing the same sort of thing at our monthly races.
Since we are either bracket racing or race in Index Classes, we don't use "fastest" to determine
the "best loser", but rather we go by amount off of Index or dial in without a red light.
If that's a tie, we go with the best reaction time next without a red light. Both red-light, it's he
who's closer to a green light. Sill easy to do, just have to think for a second sometimes.
We race everybody and bring the "best losers" back for the "real first round" to eliminate bye runs.
However, we make em earn it when we can. Works great.
We have ways to make it fair for all at the same time providing more racing.
The ladder with the most bye runs is when there are just five or nine cars. When we have five cars in a
class, we race four cars with one car set to the side. (Points leader sits to the side)
We run the four cars and have two winners who are in the "real first round".
We then have two losers plus the car on the side. The car on the side races the "worst loser" from
the previous two pair of cars. The winner is in the "real first round" Then the two guys who
are still not in have to race for the right for that last spot.
It's a lot easier than it sounds. Very fair as whoever is really out had to work to be put out and
all four who are in had to win to get there. Then we run the first round.
With nine cars we would do the same thing. Four races with one car on the side. Four winners are in
the first round. Take the five cars not in and do what I just explained above to get to four cars from five.
Take that four and add to the four winners of the qualifying round and it's an eight car ladder
without any bye runs.
Lots of racing and lots of fun. Do it a few times and it becomes second nature.
We can do the same thing with any number of cars entered. I have most of the options written
down so we race the right car at the right time to make it as fair as possible and not have to think
about it when it's happening.
Don't want any "Pink's All Out" with paying two winners!
(Stupid Move and had to hurt the shows credibility... or at least Mr. Armdrop's.)
Thank God HO cars don't need cool down time! It adds to the fun as far as we're concerned and
doesn't take long. More racing is better racing.
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Post by yellerstang on Nov 22, 2017 11:01:47 GMT -7
This thread could provide us new track owners with great insight... however, the pics are gone, at least I cannot view them. As my home track build will soon be ready for a small event with my local friends, I am curious how to set up qualifying and running the event.
Years ago we used the double elimination style of running our road course events, but that was with a given of 4 or 5 or 6 guys, guaranteed... every week. It was easy.
Now I have a few friends who want to race, maybe field 2 cars per class, and I have no idea how to manage a fair, effective race program. I have been searching online for a few hours over the last few days, but have not really found anything to be helpful. Ideas and comments greatly appreciated. Thanks
Jesse
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Post by dave632 on Nov 23, 2017 18:00:20 GMT -7
I can only explain how I do it and having raced full size bracket and heads up cars for many years I have some background. I have NEVER seen double elimination in a drag race and re runs were eliminated when electronic start/finish systems were added. My system goes to .0000 and I have actually had a couple of dead heats which the computer gave the win to the better reaction time. At my races, since they are all proxy, I start the cars simultaneously. I DO NOT feel it is fair in any way for someone else to run my cars since they might either red light or have a bad reaction time. I want to see which is the best car not which is the luckiest. I am absolutely against others running my cars or anyone's for that matter... Let the car decide which is best. This also does not mean there will be no hole shot wins as some cars just react better than others. This has happened many times on my track with both starting at the same time. Having said that I am totally FOR having the driver run his car when all drivers are present as in the case of you and your friends.. Then it is up to the driver/builder to be able to react quickly. I have my Pro tree start timer set to .01. I actually had some red lights when set at .02. This means that the car passed the beam before .02. Some of the faster cars react so quickly you cannot believe it. Think about a car running in the low .2s for 15.5', it's reaction is unreal. As far as ladders I always run #1 vs #16 or whatever the slowest qualifier was and so on down the line, #2 vs #15 etc. If there are an uneven number the fastest qualifiers get the first round bye until there are and even number left. Say there are 12 cars in the first round. Then the first 4 qualifiers get a bye with the rest running eliminations to leave 8 cars for round 2. Then you have an even number to run the rest of the event. I also only attempt to give one bye per event when possible, always giving the low ET runner the bye unless they already had one. Hope you plan some proxy races in the future as it is always interesting to race at other tracks. Here is a picture of the ET list that you can print out with TrakMate. It makes it easier to set up a qualifying list.  ET list
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Post by AJR on Nov 23, 2017 19:26:13 GMT -7
This is the information that I used to run my first proxy race. I used this and a combination of some things I liked about a couple of other races that had been run at the time to come up with my own race format. This was designed for running a proxy race, but the race format info. applies to running the race itself. Maybe it will help. Here is the link.
www.ninjatekprojects.com/pdf/unofficial_ntra_hosting.pdf
I also used this site to either print the Brackets I need or use the download tool and type the information into the ladder itself. Here is that link.
www.printyourbrackets.com/fillable-tournament-brackets.html
Since Dave has shared his opinion on drivers versus simultaneous switch, I will give another view. I am not totally opposed to a simultaneous switch as we do run all our "List" races that way, buuuuuuut I feel that the driver is an integral part of drag racing. As a driver for proxy racing I believe you should be on your game as much as possible for the race. I too can set my tree to .01 which will eliminate red lights (unless you start before the tree does.....derp). But even if a Racemaster does not have that feature, I still like to have real drivers. Luck is also a big part of drag racing. I want to replicate a real race. Have I gone out on a red light at a proxy race before......yes I have. Did it make me happy......no it didn't. But I still feel this way. There is nothing more exciting than seeing a slower car get the holeshot and steal the win from a faster car. That's the wild card factor and lets you know everyone has a chance.
Anyway the point is that everyone has their own preferences and races can be personalized in many ways. This driver subject pertains to proxy racing. With local racing the driver duels can be as exciting as the racing itself.
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Post by kiwidave on Dec 2, 2017 19:12:14 GMT -7
Downunder drag racing. 1. Qualify cars in each lane. Best time used for the ladder. We use 16 car ladder so if more than 16 cars enter the slowest cars don't make it to race day. If less than 16 cars turn up. All cars go on to race day and the correct ladder is used. 2. Ladders can be found on "Printyourbrackets" website that Jeff has mentioned. I use "Seeded" brackets(look at the top of the page). Click on the Seeded link click the correct number of teams. Then below the image of the ladder you will see "w/Games Numbered" click on that. Now you will see a PDF of the ladder. It will have the seeded numbers in the correct places and also the race numbers for the order you do the races in.  Once I have found the right ladder as a PDF. I right click on the PDF and then click "Save page as" Make sure it is saving to your pictures file. Then I have the ladder on my computer to print or add racers names to. It is easy once you have done this a couple of times. I have always been a fan of drivers starting the cars. I also have raced 1:1 cars on the strip and the street. To me a drag race is two races One at the start line and the other who ever can get to the traps first. As Jeff mentioned, a holeshot is all part of the game!!! This is just my opinion!!! Double eliminations do work and are good if you have small fields of cars. Basically your car gets another shot if you lose your first match up. Again, check out the ladders on "Printyourbrackets" it may work for your race?? Hope this helps. Good luck and just make it fun!!!! |
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Post by yellerstang on Dec 4, 2017 7:39:45 GMT -7
Nice. Thanks so much. Im thinking this is how I want to run it.
Jesse
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Post by yellerstang on Dec 4, 2017 7:41:14 GMT -7
So, are you making a qualifying run, then trying to match up similar cars, or, is it just random?
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Post by dave632 on Dec 4, 2017 21:24:13 GMT -7
After qualifying I run the quickest against the slowest etc. EX: 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15 etc.
This is how it was done on full size tracks when I ran them in the past in heads up events.
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