damo
Super Stock
Posts: 16 
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Post by damo on Feb 25, 2014 20:55:01 GMT -7
HI All,
I have a test piece of MDF routed for me to try and set some rebar wire into. All looks good but when I try to get the wire into the slots, it isn't especially smooth and even. As I measure in different places, the height of the wire above the surface isn't always perfect. It tends to vary towards the ends of the MDF where it has to bend around the corner.
I placed some copper tape next to a slot however and that was easy!
So here I have a few questions, please someone offer me some advice here:
Do I need the magnetic effect with a drag strip or can I use Copper tape and do without it?
With copper would I need a much larger shutdown area?
Is there a good trick to getting the Rebar wire sitting well?
What sort of glue do you use to get the Rebar wire to hold into the slot?
Any help will be much appreciated. I need to get this all up and running for an event coming up in just a few weeks.
Cheers,
Damo.
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Post by pceng on Feb 26, 2014 8:24:02 GMT -7
HI All, I have a test piece of MDF routed for me to try and set some rebar wire into. All looks good but when I try to get the wire into the slots, it isn't especially smooth and even. As I measure in different places, the height of the wire above the surface isn't always perfect. It tends to vary towards the ends of the MDF where it has to bend around the corner. I placed some copper tape next to a slot however and that was easy! So here I have a few questions, please someone offer me some advice here: Do I need the magnetic effect with a drag strip or can I use Copper tape and do without it? With copper would I need a much larger shutdown area? Is there a good trick to getting the Rebar wire sitting well? What sort of glue do you use to get the Rebar wire to hold into the slot? Any help will be much appreciated. I need to get this all up and running for an event coming up in just a few weeks. Cheers, Damo. Hey Damo, don't know the answer to all your questions. Some things to consider wiith tape vs. wire. Wire will let you run either magnet or non-magnet cars. Or cars with t/mags removed if no magnetic downforce is wanted. Tape itself does not give you both options. Cars that need magnetic down-force will suffer. There was a discussion not long ago where putting tape over rails was brought up (plastic track). This so the plusses of both tape and wire were had. Do not remember outcome. Members with tracks use various ways of stopping cars because of avaiable space for run-off. Those with more space than others can have longer shut down areas. But all employ a safety device at end of track. Everything from towels laid on track to catch boxes, even air bags are.used. So run off can be kept to a miinimum (if needed) by employing car catcher of sorts. Not sure of methods used to install wire. One I know (from helping friiend with build), is to roll it in with hard rubber roller used for inking type. As for adhessive, I'm sure someone that has done such a build on more than one occasion could tell you what would be best to use. So many new adhesives have come on the market, that I can'tt keep up. Somebody will probably know what to use for adhession and post it shortly, hope to have helped................PC |
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Post by ninjatek on Feb 26, 2014 9:43:10 GMT -7
Hey Damo Just to add to what pceng has already stated. Is there a good trick to getting the Rebar wire sitting well? I have heard of some people tying weights to the ends of the rebar to stretch it straight (remove side to side waviness). And then using a roller to even the height. This method is also deployed while glue dries.What sort of glue do you use to get the Rebar wire to hold into the slot? You will want something very strong to avoid neo mags from pulling the rebar out of the groove. Only naming what I am familiar with but I might try construction adhesive or Gorilla Glue. I do not know what corrosive affects (if any) it may have on the rebar. As it is under the tape and not exposed to the air it could be years before it is an issue. I am thinking the tape may need attention before the rebar does. Any help will be much appreciated. I need to get this all up and running for an event coming up in just a few weeks. Cheers, Damo. Hope this helps and you can meet your deadline. |
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damo
Super Stock
Posts: 16
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Post by damo on Feb 26, 2014 10:59:20 GMT -7
Hi Guys,
I did consider routing the slot for the rebar wire deep enough to keep it flush with the track surface, glueing it in and then laying copper tape over top. This way I could just chop the wire off neatly at each end. Since then I have searched and searched and discovered the term 'Fish Tape'. So I looked into that and it seems like a much easier option and may give a neater finish. Also would have more depth to glue into slot for a decent hold. I wonder though if it would be too much magnetic force being a larger amount of metal? Anyway, I'm going to see if I can get some here in NZ to try. There was plenty available online overseas but I am getting too close to my deadline to wait so I hope I can get some here in NZ that's the right size.
Anyone used Fish Tape?
Cheers,
Damo.
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Post by pceng on Feb 26, 2014 11:38:41 GMT -7
Hey Damo, have heard of fish tape being used for rails. Never saw it done. Used to use it for electrical work (snaking wire). Check electric supply houses. Any decent one should have several types.
.............................. PC
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Post by ninjatek on Feb 26, 2014 13:10:46 GMT -7
Hi Guys, I did consider routing the slot for the rebar wire deep enough to keep it flush with the track surface, glueing it in and then laying copper tape over top. This way I could just chop the wire off neatly at each end. I also was thinking this may be a good approach to laying the rail. You would be less concerned with waviness and height of the rebar. Since then I have searched and searched and discovered the term 'Fish Tape'. So I looked into that and it seems like a much easier option and may give a neater finish. Also would have more depth to glue into slot for a decent hold. I wonder though if it would be too much magnetic force being a larger amount of metal? Anyway, I'm going to see if I can get some here in NZ to try. There was plenty available online overseas but I am getting too close to my deadline to wait so I hope I can get some here in NZ that's the right size. Anyone used Fish Tape? Cheers, Damo. I have made an attempt to use fish tape. The fish tape I used came in a storage container that holds the fish tape in a coil. Ran into trouble when trying to straighten the fish tape. The steel used is some kind of spring steel. I tried reversing the bend by wrapping it around a large round container. This made it much better but over time the steel starts to regain some of its original curvature. So I tried to get it into the grooves anyway. Fit was good, still had uneven height problems. Powered it up, and ran cars okay. Came back to it a few days later and the MDF between the rail and the pin slot began to tear at the ends of the board due to the bend of the steel. If you can overcome getting the tape straight I think it will work well. I do not know of any method that will be able to straighten the tape to the point it is flat and also not introduce any differences that will affect height consistency. Thought a custom body shop could use the same machine they use to curve and shape steel panels but I have never looked into that.  |
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damo
Super Stock
Posts: 16
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Post by damo on Feb 26, 2014 15:21:04 GMT -7
Great post Ninjatek and great diagrams! I did find some fish tape here in NZ but based on your post I am going to try Rebar wire. I'm going to have the rail slots routed to a depth that'll leave the rebar wire just ever so slightly above the surface and I'll glue it in. I'll lay copper over The top. Doing it this way I can cut the Rebar wire off neatly flush with the end of each MDF board so there is no raised lump there. I have just done a test and it looks like it'll work out well. I'd prefer not to have the shining copper look but performance and ease of manufacture is more important right now.
Cheers,
Damo.
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Post by nosubfor3 on Feb 27, 2014 14:12:23 GMT -7
Is there a good trick to getting the Rebar wire sitting well?
What sort of glue do you use to get the Rebar wire to hold into the slot?
Hey Damo welcome to the forum. My first drag strip was routed MDF painted with outdoor deck paint and round suspended ceiling wire hanger. To get the hanger wire as straight as possible I clamped one end in a bench vise then snap the wire taut.(wear work gloves for this) This straightened the wire to install in the grove a lot easier. As for glue I tried Gorilla glue with undesirable results. The Gorilla glue expands and is not water soluble and is impossible to clean when dry. I think it is resin based glue.So I then used white carpenters glue with much better results. Before the glue dried I wiped it with a wet towel to even the glue bead. Then clamped a 2x4 to even the wire out. Oh yea I forgot to mention I used a rolling pin to get the wire into the groove.
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damo
Super Stock
Posts: 16
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Post by damo on Feb 27, 2014 15:35:46 GMT -7
Thanks nosubfor3, I did try hanging a weight from the wire to straighten it but it wasn't that successful.
Anyone tried magna-braid? It'd be easy to lay, looks good and still have the magnetic effect.
Cheers,
Damo.
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Post by nosubfor3 on Feb 27, 2014 16:04:57 GMT -7
Thanks nosubfor3, I did try hanging a weight from the wire to straighten it but it wasn't that successful. Anyone tried magna-braid? It'd be easy to lay, looks good and still have the magnetic effect. Cheers, Damo. Here is a web site with an article on wooden tracks. Click on Wooden Tracks in the left menu bar. Enjoy hoslotcarracing.com/ |
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Post by pceng on Feb 28, 2014 0:20:08 GMT -7
Hey guys, couple of things about wire that might help. Wire has what is refered to in the industry as memory. It does not like to change. When it is bent or coiled the wire on the outside half of that bend is streched. The molecules that make the material the wire is formed from have been elongated, and will not return to their original form. The only way for that bend to be straight again is to stretch the other side or inside of the bend. When working with conduits years ago we used to unroll 100' of wire to get it as straight as possible. Use to lay the outside end of the wire on the floor and weight in down so not to move. Then unroll the wire by rolling coil on floor or spining coil in hands while walking. Either way every step was on the wire. When standing up and spinning u you could step onto the wire as it was laying onto the floor. Pull it tight between your hands and planted foot and help stretch the insiide with your feet as you walked. Could feel the wire moving under feet with boots on and creaking the whole time. The thing about this that worked, was having the wire lay flat the whole time. Not letting it twist. And then leaving it alone for awhile to let it relax.
How difficult would it be to go down one side of the wire going to be rail with 6" pieces of wire soldered to rail. With holes drilled through slot and wire passed through same. Rail could be tied down, so to speak.
Cordell, told me about the fish tape couple of years ago. I did not realize at the time that the tape was stood-up in the slot. My thought on this was to lay it flat. Drill holes, countersink, and screw down.
Anyone ever try copper wire ? Softer than steel. No magnetics but would not wear out like tape.
...................... PC
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damo
Super Stock
Posts: 16
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Post by damo on Feb 28, 2014 0:44:23 GMT -7
I had read that article (on HOslotracing.com) once before and it sounded good but when I tried to test the rebar wire it just wasn't flat and seemed too hard to get right. Maybe my problem was that the router bit is 1/16 (1.58mm) yet the wire measures 1.5mm. It isn't tight in the slot. I did try laying sellotape over the slot and then rolling in the wire (with a roller) and it was firmer but still had the odd wave in it.
I have ordered 2 metres of magna braid so early next week I'll do a trial with that and I think I'll have to go that way. Unfortunately it's much more expensive than rebar wire! Over the weekend though I'll try the 'tension & twang' method as described earlier in this thread just to see how that goes. I'll also see how the laying out method works. Looks like I won't be getting the lawms mowed this weekend after all!
Cheers,
Damo.
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Post by pceng on Feb 28, 2014 7:54:42 GMT -7
Hey Damo, 1/16" router bit is right, and you are too. Wire is to small. Needs to be slightlhy oversized.. ..reason for rolling it in.
.............. PC
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Post by TGM2054 on Feb 28, 2014 13:29:03 GMT -7
Here's what i was thinking about doing, I've got the MDF, and am planning on using copper tape. I'm looking at different options to put a ridge down the center of the tape to get good contact. one is using fishing line, pull it taught and it's straight, go over the top of it with the copper. I don't know if it's really a down side, but by doing it that way, there's no way for the traction magnets to provide any down force. That's why I thought about using magnetic chalk board paint.
The other thing I was considering, was to use piano wire instead of the fishing line and then just use regular paint. Just some ideas to throw out there.
I'm still planning on building the track in three sections. That way when you take out the center section it would be an 1/8 mile, put it all together it would be a 1/4 mile, just like my old track was.
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Post by pceng on Feb 28, 2014 15:54:08 GMT -7
The chalk board paint sounds intresting. Magnetic, and a grey color to ? That would be a nice base color to add to. Different shades, few fine point black lines for cracks here and there........ could look real good.........
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