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Post by dave632 on Nov 9, 2014 10:18:54 GMT -7
Yes, I agree that we need to keep interest for all. That is one reason I want to hold a bracket race next year.
I will not participate as a racer in that race either. It is also not my favorite form of racing but I think we need to get others involved with the racing and holding a 3 level bracket race should work. Street, Pro, Super Pro, just like full size tracks do. Car has to be consistent and have a good reaction time, believe me the cars react differently even when started at the same time. I would post the test and tune times and let the racer decide on the dial in.
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Post by AJR on Nov 9, 2014 10:30:58 GMT -7
Dave that sounds like a plan! Eagle Racing and I have run (3) Bracket races for the forum. It is much more involved but have had great turnouts each time. We ran it as an any chassis could run just to make it easy for everyone to send something that they had that was consistent. Your idea sounds great as well. Once again I would contact Ninjatek (Cordell) as he has a format, spreadsheet, dial in sheet, etc. already made up that is very helpful. Nothing is etched in stone as it is a work in progress. Your input would be welcomed.
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Post by dave632 on Nov 9, 2014 14:15:05 GMT -7
I have been in contact with Cordell and we will see what we can work out for next year. Together we should get something going. My system prints out a spread sheet so ET brackets could easily be set up. Any chassis motor combo allowed with the ET separating the 3 classes. On my track running at 20 volts I could run say 1.200 second and over as street, .800 - 1.199 as Pro, and .799 and under as Super Pro. Of course these times would be open for suggestion.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 14:34:30 GMT -7
while those are specific brackets, they are often referred to as indexes.
where as indexes run heads up on a pro tree and have to stay within the bracket index they selected.
bracket racing is "run what ya brung" on a sportsman's tree with the faster car getting a delayed start.
dial-in is selected by each racer based on the performance of the car and the delay for the faster car is designed to even out the advantage of having superior speed.
not sure how Y'all run your brackets though.
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Post by pceng on Nov 9, 2014 14:48:31 GMT -7
Problem with time brackets is they are guessing games if one should not have timming system & similar track. Or power capabilities are not close to same. Types of races & classes run are up to RM's.
The simpler a build or ease of entering a race draw the greatest # of entries. See what rules will be for next season & which classes float your boat. An established class is a better draw than something new. But like I said , it is up to you as RaceMaster to decide which way to go. Races are more involved than they appear. A lot goes into hosting one. So as a first race a non-overwhelming amount of cars could be a good thing.
Just trying to help with looking at picture from different angles.......
.......... Peter
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Post by dave632 on Nov 9, 2014 15:07:59 GMT -7
Al at the tracks I ran at they had 3 different bracket classes. You still dialed in your number but it kept the dragsters away from the street cars etc. That is why I indicated a range of ETs. At our full size tracks, in this case 1/8th mile, street ran 10.00 and over, Pro ran 7.50 - 9.99 and Super pro was anything 7.49 and under. with a sportsman's .500 tree. This would also allow for 3 winners instead of 1. I also feel that the faster car has a slight advantage even in bracket racing. The guys, and gals, who ran at the tracks I ran were always wanting to go faster so they could be coming from behind where it is easier to judge when to let off if you were going to pass up your opponent. You could also possibly judge if they cut a good tree sometimes. Index racing is exactly as you describe where you cannot run under a certain number but you do not put your own dial in on your window. You must run the pre determined ET but no better. I don't know how many times I went down an 1/8th, 1/4 and yes even a 1/16th of a mile but it has to be over a thousand. It was and still is my favorite form of racing and it will always be. Something about the brutal acceleration was always fascinating. Here is a shot of the Beretta I had, (my fastest drag car of many), leaving the line. It had a 1.07 60' time and it would probably lose a 60' race to some of our little rockets.  |
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Post by AJR on Nov 9, 2014 15:09:35 GMT -7
while those are specific brackets, they are often referred to as indexes. where as indexes run heads up on a pro tree and have to stay within the bracket index they selected. bracket racing is "run what ya brung" on a sportsman's tree with the faster car getting a delayed start. dial-in is selected by each racer based on the performance of the car and the delay for the faster car is designed to even out the advantage of having superior speed. not sure how Y'all run your brackets though. You have it right Al. We haven't ever run indexes....it's been sportsman tree...stagger start. Cordell has put together a spreadsheet and dial in tool that we have used along with our timing systems. It is very involved and becomes a drivers game which is how it should be. All our races were successful encounters with good turn out. Very involved though compared to a normal race. |
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Post by dave632 on Nov 9, 2014 15:16:12 GMT -7
Problem with time brackets is they are guessing games if one should not have timming system & similar track. Or power capabilities are not close to same. Types of races & classes run are up to RM's. The simpler a build or ease of entering a race draw the greatest # of entries. See what rules will be for next season & which classes float your boat. An established class is a better draw than something new. But like I said , it is up to you as RaceMaster to decide which way to go. Races are more involved than they appear. A lot goes into hosting one. So as a first race a non-overwhelming amount of cars could be a good thing. Just trying to help with looking at picture from different angles....... .......... Peter Peter, my idea is to run entries 3 or 4 times to establish a base line for each car. Then allow the entrant to select a dial in. This would also automatically select a class for them since they would fall into one of the 3 classes. Since a lot of these cars are not too consistent they would want to leave a little cushion unless they are gamblers. Hopefully I would not get 200 cars for my first race.
Dave
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Post by AJR on Nov 9, 2014 15:23:56 GMT -7
Problem with time brackets is they are guessing games if one should not have timming system & similar track. Or power capabilities are not close to same. Types of races & classes run are up to RM's. The simpler a build or ease of entering a race draw the greatest # of entries. See what rules will be for next season & which classes float your boat. An established class is a better draw than something new. But like I said , it is up to you as RaceMaster to decide which way to go. Races are more involved than they appear. A lot goes into hosting one. So as a first race a non-overwhelming amount of cars could be a good thing. Just trying to help with looking at picture from different angles....... .......... Peter Dave.........Peter is right. Indexes have been brought up, but could be very difficult for the reasons he listed above. Also since we have run 3 Bracket races and you have yet to do your first event, you might want your first one to be Bracket only any chassis or Bracket with 1 other class. We had 30 entries in each race for the Bracket only. First one we did was double elimination. Talk about a lot of races......my finger hurt from pulling the trigger so much. If I was to do another one I think I would only do the Bracket class and focus more on the commentary and coverage. Not sure what you have planned, but just a little background info for you. If I can help with anything let me know. |
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Post by dave632 on Nov 9, 2014 17:10:53 GMT -7
Thanks for the help offer and I will certainly take advantage of it.
I personally have run all of the cars I have in one day, (along with repairing a couple of breakdowns), which number over a hundred. The system can organize them into et brackets.
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Post by AJR on Nov 9, 2014 17:50:17 GMT -7
The racing of the cars goes quick. It's the staging of the cars for pics, commentary, and posting when things slow to a crawl. With a bracket there is a little more added to that with the spreadsheet, etc. You may have a better way of doing it. Not trying to discourage just trying to inform. It's a blast to do an event. Seeing all the cool builds and running them down the track. That's when the track becomes more than just a test track. It's fun work but there's a lot that we do. We make a weekend of it and pot luck or grill. I look forward to whatever you decide to do. Another proxy track is a GOOD thing!! Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 18:19:52 GMT -7
let me say ....
I have run hundreds of slot car drag races and one proxy event.
when I am running the timing system, writing down results, keeping track of all the things that have to be done properly, I don't get to see the racing.
yes, I am using an archaic timing system that doesn't tie into a computer that automatically creates ladders from the qualifying results, so my time is much more consumed.
that is the drawback of running races with someone else's equipment.
I have purchased and am installing the DP3000 in my home 1/8 mile.
proxy races for me will go much easier.
and I will be able to recall from the memory bank any detail that someone wants to know.
a recent 143DRG race had no details, not even who faced off with who. and I am told that was using a DP3000.
anyway, I just want to reinforce that running a race is time and focus intensive.
I have had pure bracket races with over 250 cars entered. that is a lot of rounds.
done heads up races for hundreds of dollars, winner take all, that involved 170+ cars and up to three buy backs per car.
again, time intensive.
there is no time for racing as the race master under those conditions.
not trying to dissuade anyone from running races, that has it's own reward.
but clarity is called for when deciding to try this for the first time.
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Post by dave632 on Nov 9, 2014 18:57:38 GMT -7
Thanks for the warnings.
Since the 3000 is linked to a computer with a spread sheet and printer it eliminates a great deal of work involved with a race. Just by double clicking on the top of the ET column it will list all ETs in ascending or descending order, then you can print it out that way or in the order they ran. This makes your qualifying job very easy. All names, classes and cars can be typed in and recalled whenever you need them. All of this information comes out in the printout. I may still take everyone's advice and run all classes together. If I run a race I plan on devoting whatever days are needed to the event as I am retired. I am probably in the ideal situation to run a race. I also plan to use push buttons not controllers to run the cars. There is no feathering the throttle in slot car drag racing.... (:
Al I think you will like the DP3000 but their tech support is sorely lacking. You have to figure everything out for yourself. My problems were computer related not wiring the system. Make sure you set your printer up correctly or you will get error messages. My computer also had other issues. I wiped the slate clean and in now only runs the DP3000.
The slot dragon is a great system with great tech support but it lacks sophistication. I have kept mine as a backup.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 19:47:36 GMT -7
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not but the TrackMate DP series has a built in users manual.
If you place you mouse pointer over the field you are entering data it will tell you more about that field.
Regards
ALan
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Post by dave632 on Nov 10, 2014 6:27:53 GMT -7
Never looked at that feature, thanks.
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