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Post by wbj on May 29, 2020 5:49:48 GMT -7
Yes something like that as the stock and super stock were running about the same times. Another possibility is limiting the Stock to gear ratios in the 7/25 range, as Pete suggested, that will slow them a lot and many stock cars come with those ratios, the problem is trying to count the teeth on those gears. I had thought of that myself but trying to count the teeth is a pain. Congrats on taking the #1 spot in PSO and 4GO I dropped off the lists to let others have a shot as I have been up there to long. Dave, I've read some of the suggestions in regards to armatures. Not sure what the answer is there. But an easy one is, Stock = stock crown or a stamped readable 24 tooth aftermarket gear. Super Stock = 20 to 24 tooth stamped readable crown and an option to run a 7 or 8 tooth pinion. The gearing change will add some differentiation between the classes. As far as the armatures go I'd think staying in the 6 ohm range is fine. Maybe allowing a balanced worked stock type arm for super stock. Just my thoughts. Great job on putting on your race. |
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Post by GTS on May 29, 2020 6:03:26 GMT -7
Drop the voltage???
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Post by Eagle Racing on May 29, 2020 6:26:38 GMT -7
Yep, a voltage drop is the easy way to separate a class. A voltage increase does the same thing. |
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Post by dave632 on May 29, 2020 8:04:20 GMT -7
Sam, Pete, GTS, wbj, Eagle thanks for the thoughts. I have found that weight does not always make a difference, in some cases extra weight
in the right place will actually improve ET and even speed which makes no sense but it happens. I also don't think the stronger magnets
helped much if any or if anyone took advantage of the change. I have tried stronger magnets in some chassis with the opposite effect.
In some cases they slowed the car down instead of picking up the ET or speed. Magnets must be matched to the armature.
Wheelie bars on the other hand are just about a necessity on most cars. Most of our stockers would not go down the drag strip without them.
Except cars like the BSRT, Viper and Tomy Super G+. That set up will run without wheelie bars.
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Post by ecbill on May 29, 2020 9:32:33 GMT -7
Super Stock is my favorite class whether it be in line or pancake. I’d like to see it stay as is. If folks feel change is necessary, consider making the Stock classes more stock or lower the voltage, as Gale suggested.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 9:59:58 GMT -7
K
I
S
S
I like having classes that represent chassis builds.
seems like a basic formula would be something like :
Stock
Modified Stock
Unlimited
in each chassis type
so you would have a category of :
Pancake t-Jet type including the various manufacturers over the years
Pancake AFX type, also including various manufacturers versions including those with traction magnets
Pancake 4-Gear/Specialty type including all manufacturers of said design.
Inline also including many designs by multiple manufacturers over half a decade or longer.
I like the classes and rules we currently have in place, just sharing my simplified (by my humble standards [LOL] ) opinion and ideas.
this formula worked well for my live racing for several decades, but alas, it seems it wasn't sufficient enough to keep local racers interested.
and, for the record, attending racers voted, on several occasions, to make revisions about allowances, dis allowances, additional classes and tech issues which were agreed on by a majority vote.
not trying to change Nitro Slots, but this discussion (which might be redirected to it's own thread) intrigues me and I think there is much room for discussion and sharing opinions.
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Post by pete on May 29, 2020 10:03:35 GMT -7
If the voltage was lower the et would be much different, a simple adjustment.
We are all ready at the tire limit at the speed we are running. In review of my suggestions, I did not consider the tires. That would be many changes in a short amount of time.
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Post by AJR on May 29, 2020 13:33:54 GMT -7
K I S S I like having classes that represent chassis builds. seems like a basic formula would be something like : Stock Modified Stock Unlimited in each chassis type so you would have a category of : Pancake t-Jet type including the various manufacturers over the years Pancake AFX type, also including various manufacturers versions including those with traction magnets Pancake 4-Gear/Specialty type including all manufacturers of said design. Inline also including many designs by multiple manufacturers over half a decade or longer. I like the classes and rules we currently have in place, just sharing my simplified (by my humble standards [LOL] ) opinion and ideas. this formula worked well for my live racing for several decades, but alas, it seems it wasn't sufficient enough to keep local racers interested. and, for the record, attending racers voted, on several occasions, to make revisions about allowances, dis allowances, additional classes and tech issues which were agreed on by a majority vote. not trying to change Nitro Slots, but this discussion (which might be redirected to it's own thread) intrigues me and I think there is much room for discussion and sharing opinions. I agree Al. These rules discussions....although interesting always seems to escalate. K.I.S.S. is the best way. The current NTRA base rules guidelines came about over a period of time to simplify them and allow for "minor" tweaking by the Racemasters. If we need to modify the rules that are in place we can do that, but it will not be a major overhaul. I don't think it would take much to differentiate between Stock and Super Stock without changing major components. Gearing and tires should be sufficient. |
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Post by AJR on May 29, 2020 13:40:05 GMT -7
Dave I received my cars today and all the goodies! Thank you for the Super Tire order and running the race! Thank you to all that sent sponsor goodies. I got another pickup truck for the collection. I've been wanting a square bodied Chevy and now I have one!
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Post by pete on May 29, 2020 16:01:45 GMT -7
My cars came home. Thank you everyone, that was a cool race . Thank you to all the sponsors. Can't wait to send the cars out again  |
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Post by Eagle Racing on May 29, 2020 16:15:07 GMT -7
Got my cars today, thank you.
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Post by dynomike on May 29, 2020 16:34:48 GMT -7
I just got my cars back plus a goodie pkg. Its almost like Christmas. Thanks to all the sponsers. Thanks to Dave znd all putting on the show. I guess i am hooked now. Cant wait till the next event.
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Post by sjracer on May 29, 2020 17:21:10 GMT -7
I agree with Al and JJ. To me restricting gears and so forth takes away from one's creativity/r&d. What works for one car doesn't necessarily work for another. I honestly would run everything at the same volts/amps. Another thing one may want to consider in adjusting the rules is cost. Remember the thought of an unlimited being lost in the mail.... horrific! I know when Sam came up with the MMPS class it was to have a fast car but kept cost at a minimum. I spoke to him several times as I know he used to race Dr. Hoe rules. He spoke about how expensive those cars are to build and maintain. Look at the MMPS post he tells you what everything cost. I believe everything for that cost under $50 which somewhere around the price of an unlimited motor. For this reason I tend to like the stock classes the most and the PSO Outlaw class(es). It doesn't make sense to me to up the voltage so my SS Stock can run better than my stock? I'm thinking I spent extra money on magnets and so forth and yet a well set up stock cars out runs it? If so, I need to keep building & tweaking.
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Post by ecbill on May 29, 2020 18:00:46 GMT -7
K I S S I like having classes that represent chassis builds. seems like a basic formula would be something like : Stock Modified Stock Unlimited in each chassis type so you would have a category of : Pancake t-Jet type including the various manufacturers over the years Pancake AFX type, also including various manufacturers versions including those with traction magnets Pancake 4-Gear/Specialty type including all manufacturers of said design. Inline also including many designs by multiple manufacturers over half a decade or longer. I like the classes and rules we currently have in place, just sharing my simplified (by my humble standards [LOL] ) opinion and ideas. this formula worked well for my live racing for several decades, but alas, it seems it wasn't sufficient enough to keep local racers interested. and, for the record, attending racers voted, on several occasions, to make revisions about allowances, dis allowances, additional classes and tech issues which were agreed on by a majority vote. not trying to change Nitro Slots, but this discussion (which might be redirected to it's own thread) intrigues me and I think there is much room for discussion and sharing opinions. KISS was exactly what I was thinking after my last post. Great minds think alike. Before I ever got involved with Nitro Slots, I saw a post for an upcoming event. Thought, that sounded like fun. But then I read the rules. It must have been an event with stock classes. The rules stipulated that the arms had to be stock and the magnets had to be the type that originally came with the chassis. Arms had to be a certain ohm value. There were rules on wether you could or could not have a hood scoop, an engine poking through the hood, or a spoiler. At the present those rules don’t seem too onerous. But at that time I had been out of any for of organized racing since the 80s. Had a good variety of cars but no idea which arms or magnets came with which car. Most likely nothing I had would have been stock. Much of it was in pieces. Didn’t have a reliable ohm meter. Figured there was no way I could get a car ready for the race. Later I did hook up with some guys in another forum who had more of a “run what you brung, let’s have fun attitude.” The fix was in. Some of those guys encouraged me to give Nitro Slots a try. I’ve come to understand that things changed a lot at Nitro Slots from the time of my 1st visit till I ended up joining. All this to explain, why I say KISS. We should be careful to avoid rules that are so complex or nit-picky that they scare potential racers off. |
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Post by AJR on May 29, 2020 18:04:49 GMT -7
I agree with Al and JJ. To me restricting gears and so forth takes away from one's creativity/r&d. What works for one car doesn't necessarily work for another. I honestly would run everything at the same volts/amps. Another thing one may want to consider in adjusting the rules is cost. Remember the thought of an unlimited being lost in the mail.... horrific! I know when Sam came up with the MMPS class it was to have a fast car but kept cost at a minimum. I spoke to him several times as I know he used to race Dr. Hoe rules. He spoke about how expensive those cars are to build and maintain. Look at the MMPS post he tells you what everything cost. I believe everything for that cost under $50 which somewhere around the price of an unlimited motor. For this reason I tend to like the stock classes the most and the PSO Outlaw class(es). It doesn't make sense to me to up the voltage so my SS Stock can run better than my stock? I'm thinking I spent extra money on magnets and so forth and yet a well set up stock cars out runs it? If so, I need to keep building & tweaking. Very well put Darryl. We currently have Classes for all levels of build, Inline and Pancake, with pretty good separation between Classes for the most part. The current NTRA rules were a group collaboration of 5 or 6 core Racemasters and it was headed by Sam. Ahhhh the days of MMPS ...... |
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