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Post by SKR on Sept 9, 2008 10:24:53 GMT -7
Drag Racing HO Extremist have made some changes to their program to help keep costs down and it looks as there might be a shortage of tires capable of handling the 100 plus mph speeds they are reaching. DRHOE's founder Steve Geary known for building some of the wildest and fastest full blown Neo cars capable of running sub .2 of a second at speeds over 115 mph on a 17. 5' timed section released this statement on his site. www.drhoe.net/index_files/page0005.htm"Because of the inability to get our 100 mph tires anymore, the cost of arms, and the constant ripping up of tires and all other parts we changed our voltage from 27 to 21, installing two new 6 volt batteries, which have chargers hooked up to them, so each lane has a 12 and 6 volt in series with each having its own charger. This change effectively took 25 mph off the Top Fuel’s and Funny Cars, and 50 thou in E.T. and around 15 mph off the other three classes. The result has been much cleaner, closer racing, maybe less grey hair for me as well as a hell of a lot less headaches for me, since I tune all the pro cars here at the Superplex"I for one like to hear about the new records and was hoping the 120mph would be reached but fully understand their dilemma. I think this brings up a great debatable topic for discussion. Is the price of pro racing out of hand? Are high volts bad for the hobby? Does it matter? We can still have fun on 10 volts as much as 27 volts. Just a few things to think about. No wrong answers here. |
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Post by allstarhr on Sept 9, 2008 15:35:32 GMT -7
I too thought the 100+ MPH blasts must be aaah.....blast!
At the same time I realized for my hobby that more realistic speeds would suffice for many reasons.
1.We've been racing for almost 2 years now and went from 21 volts down to 18 to make add more car performance to the race.
2.Incredible ET's just mean that it's a reaction time race and for those of us that are not .... quick reflexed, losing all the time would get old fast.
3. Another benifit to us is that we don't need wheelie bars on all the cars. They are neat on the hot cars without much in the way of traction magnets, but not needed on inline magnet cars and that makes it quick for a new guy to get involved and be competitive.
4. Low voltage was also was a must since I didn't have room for a 25-30' long track and the quicker the ET the more important the reaction time becomes. Mine is 16' long including shutdown and we still have a ball.
Would I want to see a 100+ MPH run? Heck yes! Do I have the time to prep a bunch of 100+ MPH cars? Nope. Are we having fun anyway? Yep.
The neat thing I've learned in the last year or so it that uniformity in really not that important. Sam's track is about 15 foot timed and I think runs at 25 volts. Tim's track is about 11' timed length and runs at 13 volts. Mine is 8'-9" timed and runs at 18 volts. Everybody is having fun and can run at each others track with little problem. Cool! Still hope I am able to make a high speed race sometime just to see what it looks like. Gotta be cool too.
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Post by nightrider on Sept 9, 2008 15:44:38 GMT -7
Sam,,,
Does this not clarify as to why we are really to keep Cubic Dollars out of our little world???
Chris
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iowajeff
Pro Stock
Jeff Sandage- Iowa
Posts: 114
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Post by iowajeff on Sept 10, 2008 7:57:37 GMT -7
Allstarhr, I don't think you can see a 100+ pass.LOL I was at Steve's for a 99 mph pass, but I didn't see it.
Iowajeff
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Post by johnbalich on Sept 10, 2008 11:03:06 GMT -7
I am toying with the idea of even lower voltages.....15 is a very common power supply. As you guys have said you can SEE the race. as i have told before, back in the day on 12-13 volts we raced fairly stock T jets. ( maybe just racing tires and gear changes allowed. You could actually watch a stock geared T jet get out of the hole quickly, and the watch a Hop-Up geared (12 tooth drive ) car try to run it down before the finish line. Very cool stuff.
Another scheme that I used and actually 'stole' from 1/25 th racers at the time, was 'graduated voktages.' Stock or superstock jets on 15 volts. Pro Stock on 18, Gasser on 24. Funny cars ran at 30! ( I have run Stock Tyco Pros., with silicone skins on 60 volts a few times!! They act just Lijke Double A FueL altereds!) It's all good, and I think Dr Hoe's move is a good one, both for him and for the example it sets. There will still be those who will race at the upper extremes and I applaud their efforts as well. It's cool to see who will run 115 mph, then 120 etc., but for the average racer, and those who might consider themselves 'semi- pro,' (the seriously intense guys, but still for fun) lower voltages make lots of sense.
These are the same reasons that NHRA puts a limit on gear ratios and cubic inches, and why the move to 1000' might be a very good one as well.
Nightrider's comment about the 'cubic dollars' factor is a telling one. Costs were still taken into consideration before we offered Pro Mod class. Costs are a major reason that Pro Mod, our most extreme class, still has limitations. One ohm arms don't last very long. We may even offer a "sportsman Mod class" in the future, for those who love these beasties but don't want to mortgage their house to race. Gassers and Super Stockers are here to stay!
I personally see Gassers as a bread and butter Hot Rod class. Not too ridiculous in costs, yet plenty of 'hot rodding" leeway. If only JL, Aw or 16 ohm T jet arms were legal, you could trim another 6 -8 dollars off of the price of the Gassers, as you wouldn't have to purchase and change out the armature for a mean green or drag arm. Maybe there would be interest in this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 8:16:43 GMT -7
First of all what tires do you need to break the record? Where was 17.5 ft distance gotten from? Logic.?Where the voltage come from originally? Thanks for your help.
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Post by scottman2007 on Sept 25, 2008 8:58:51 GMT -7
I think lowering the voltage to a point is ok,but for those guys at Drhoe,the money is in their cars,it wont lower cost down one bit,they use motor magnets at about 35.00 a pair,traction magents at about 25.00 a pair,arms that are 50.00 to 100.00. just becasue they are lowering the voltage doesnt mean they will stop using High Dollar parts,and thats why I like this club and this racing so much ,We have rules for cheap exciting racing,even if its not at a 100mph.I think anywhere between 16volts and 20 volts are ok.in our racing we are not tearing up parts so lowering it wont really save us on cost.I think where we are running at the Right Voltage and the classes are Perfect ,and the entries in our races Prove that.Just my opinion.RACE ON!!!!!!!!!!!and by the way I totally agree with allstar,when the cars get too fast the race is all about reaction time and who has more money and to me thats not fun..it sounds like F1,LOL.
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Post by johnbalich on Sept 25, 2008 10:47:37 GMT -7
The reason cost will be affected is that, the parts will live much longer at lower voltages and amperages. I dont think 1/2 -1 ohm arms at 27 volts with 10-20 amps do well for long.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 13:44:01 GMT -7
Any answers to my  ?? above? |
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Post by allstarhr on Sept 25, 2008 14:21:01 GMT -7
First of all what tires do you need to break the record? I don't know as we don't race the high volts so I haven't needed a tire for it. From what I read somewhere, the DRHOE group was eating up tires and had apparently lost their source to buy them. Where was 17.5 ft distance gotten from? The 17.5 feet came from taking 1/64 scale and 1/87 scale (both considered HO scale by some.) and splitting it in half for a 1/75th scale. Take a 1320' quarter mile and divide by 75 for the 1/75th scale and you get 17.5 feet. Logic.?It wasn't my idea, but personally I like it as makes it easier to get tracks inside smaller locations. It's even shorter if you divide 1320 by 1/87 scale for a length of 15.17 feet. Where the voltage come from originally? I think they went with the high voltage by just wiring two car batteries in series. Car batteries really produce about 13.6 volts and not 12 volts so the end result of two in series is 27.2 volts. As I've stated above, I'm not interested in the high volts. Too old, too slow to ever win a round! (Leave it alone Demon340  ).
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Post by NTRA on Sept 25, 2008 15:44:35 GMT -7
TO add to the above comments......or maybe even risk just repeating them. "HO" scale is a relative approximation. Some use a 1/87 quarter mile, some use a 1/72 quarter mile, then trhere is a 1/75 quarter mile.
Hgher voltages evolved cause they are fun! 24- 27 seems to be a de facto standard, but is by no means the 'correct' voltage.
There is a trend to reasonable voltages for better (and more visible) racing. Also the cost of 13-18 volt power supplies is lower.
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Post by SKR on Sept 25, 2008 20:01:58 GMT -7
Our track runs on two 12 volt batteries in series and settles out at 25.6 volts for a night of racing with no charger. DRHOE runs his batteries with a charger to get them up to 27 volts. Kim bracket races a car with a inline armature that ohms out around 1 ohm and it has made many passes in the last year and a half and it is still as consistent as it was when it was built. I don't think the higher volts is what's burning up the armatures as much as it's the commutators that are wearing or blowing apart before the actual wire goes bad. Cranking the brush tension up wears the com's prematureley. I've seen commutators blow apart from blowing a gear and the driver leaves the trigger on full allowing the armature to spin at max RPM's with no load. It doesn't take much and you'll be picking up part of your commutator off the track. Tires: not sure what they are using. Probably something rubber based? Maybe Goodyear can hook them up with some high speed HO tires  As far as what is better. High volts or Low volts? Both! yes, at lower volts you'll be able to see your car better but I don't think it makes for any better racing over Higher volts. It's just a matter of your personal preference and what your club likes. It's still going to be fun no matter how fast they are going. Phil, your not too old to see the cars, you just blink too much  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2008 18:55:01 GMT -7
Guys,
HODRA AND OVDRA Came up with the idea of just using two 12 volt batteries or a power supply that goes to 25.4 volts. It was the best way to go!! No chargr on each battery
Now for the track size We really like the idea of going with 20' 7" 1/2" to make it look great.
Now Slugger might think I am wrong but , we all have are views!!
He likes it his way and we like our way!!
Thanks JOe
Yes I am a founding member of HODRA
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