|
|
Post by sst1610 on Sept 16, 2007 12:50:03 GMT -7
Thank you that link was very helpful. So It looks like I'm going to make a frame out of 1''x4''s and use dado joints. The home depot has 11.25''x96'' 3/4'' think mdf so I think I'll make the track 11'' wide. Is that a good idea? and I'll pick up some 16 gauge rebar tie wire for the rails. Does this sound like a good plan to start my build. I plan on running the rebar the whole length, even shutdown. How to I stop the power after the finish though. Sorry for all the questions, I just want to do it right the first time.
Thanks,
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by allstarhr on Sept 16, 2007 19:49:52 GMT -7
I like the 11" idea. I've actually just purchased a really neat portable track from Kevin Barnsdale in S. Florida. I'll take some pic's tomorrow and email them to you. My first HO drag strip was made with Tomy plastic track mounted on a 1"x4" board 10' long for the timed 1/8th mile portion and another 7' long section connected for the shutdown that didn't need wiring. That way it was portable too. I used drywall screws to mount two more 1x4's on each side of the track base to make it into an "H" shape when viewed from the end. The wiring was under the "H" cross board. Unfortunately it got ruined. I am actually making another one as I've got enought timing equipment for three tracks now. (Be careful...this gets addicting.) I'll try to get you pictures.
|
|
|
|
Post by sst1610 on Sept 17, 2007 4:31:58 GMT -7
That sounds cool, I'm really interested in seeing pictures. I'll try and get some of my own pics as I move along with the progess. I'd like to have it all set up for racing this winter. The really big investment I see for me is the trackmate system and 2 power supplies. Maybe I can make it up by charging small entry fees just so I can break even. Thanks again.
|
|
|
|
Post by SKR on Sept 17, 2007 5:31:48 GMT -7
Thanks for the safety tips on batteries Phil  . Our battery charger is a dual rate 2/6 amp charger with automatic Overcharge protection. I charge them at 2 amps, no need to cook them. Once the charger detects a full charge it goes into trickle mode ($30 at Autozone). After a night of racing we usally drop about .5 volts. Not enough for my dial ins to change. We do not run chargers on the batteries while we are racing although I have heard of some groups doing this to obtain a certain amount of volts. Dave, I would get with Galinko on the power supplies if this is what your wanting, to see what he would recommend. Let him know what you'll be running as far as armatures and magnets. I know he sells 2 different power supplies. The 0-20vdc ($125) and the 5-32vdc ($379) which in his add claims to be the ultimate power source for drag racing. I'm not sure if you need one per lane with these ones. Something you might want to check into before deciding. Just some thoughts. Here is link and contact info for Galinko power supplies. www.slotcars.org/hodra/ag&gProducts2.htmIf you take pictures of the track build, We'd love to see them. Sam |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2007 14:08:35 GMT -7
I'm surprised the old man ("killer") hasn't chimed in with an opinion on the power sources. It’s been awhile since my one required electrical engineering course, but I’ll help the best I can. A common misconception is that voltage is a significantly important variable to be controlled with slot cars. In reality, small differences in voltage won’t affect the total power to the slot car, so long as an adequate amount of current is available. The small electric motor will draw the adequate amount of amperage to offset small changes in voltage. That’s why they can run the same dial-ins all night at Psycho Slots and simultaneously have a small voltage drop. This can be summed up with Joule’s Law: Power = Current X Voltage. Just remember the DC motor only pulls the current it needs. Does the small change in voltage subtly affect HOW the car performs (torque, heat, etc.)? Maybe to some small degree but it is probably a second or more likely a third order affect. The affect is probably about the same as not placing the car in the exact same orientation on the start line, or not having the armature in the exact same position, or not having precisely the same gears meshing. I could go on and on but you get the idea, it’s not measurable. I personally have a preference for batteries over AC/DC power supplies for one main reason: the AC/DC power supply is plugged into the wall. Wall power is not consistent and you have very little control over it. You may think the power company is sending you good power but it can change at any time. AC/DC power supplies combat these changes by using capacitors or some other smoothing feature. Regardless, I think if you did a comparison of a battery power vs. AC/DC power supply over a course of a race, you’d see that battery power is more consistent. You may overcome the difference if you pay a pretty penny ($400+) for very good power supply. Another possible problem is the bleed through of AC heating the motors. However, it shouldn’t be as significant to drag racing as road racing. In the end here’s how I see it. The AC/DC power supply is built to imitate the perfect DC power source (batteries). The AC/DC power supply offers a lower effort alternative to a battery. However, a good AC/DC power supply is expensive. Other lesser AC/DC power supplies may do the job if you buy two. Now you’ve got two power supplies plugged into the same circuit (we’re back to the wall power which I don’t like). Ultimately, you have to judge the tradeoffs for yourself. A few deep cycle batteries plus a good charger will almost always cost less than a comparable AC/DC power supply alternative. Do you perceive the maintenance/charging of deep cycle batteries as burdensome? Some do. Some don’t. Would you rather just plug in the wall and run? Venting batteries shouldn’t be an issue if you don’t overcharge, but it wouldn’t hurt to open a window (I think they even make maintenance free versions which are more expensive). Is the AC/DC power supply you can afford good enough to imitate a consistent DC power source? How long will the batteries last? With good maintenance, some will last many years, with bad maintenance not so much. How long will the AC/DC power supply last? A good power supply will probably last a long time. A bad power supply will become less and less reliable as the heat generated due to the AC/DC conversion tends to cause damage. You can probably judge the quality of the power supply by the warranty offered. Wow, I wrote more than I expected. For me, I would choose batteries because it’s a cheaper and simpler system: fewer variables are involved which I prefer. However, to each their own, a good AC/DC power supply probably isn’t significantly different. Here's an old thread I found as well that may be helpful: groups.google.com/group/alt.hobbies.slotcars/browse_thread/thread/4ef0531e1538ec67/e59eb220e4a8b10c?lnk=st&q=dc+motor+ripple+damage&rnum=2&hl=en# |
|
|
|
Post by allstarhr on Sept 17, 2007 19:34:58 GMT -7
Nicely explained! I especially agree with your "clean" voltage vs. the cities eratic stuff. If perfect races are the goal, batteries are the hands down winner. (I must appologize for the long winded explaination of "how we do it down here" that will follow. I do think it important to maintaining a growing and fun group. JMO and you know what that's worth.) Perfectly level and quality playing fields are what most track owners shot for. However, NHRA will probably never have a National Record set at Memphis or St. Louis or Denver due to weather and altitude issues. Doesn't make the racing bad as everyone still has to work with the same problems. I don't think it fair that Friday nights sessions have the points leaders qualify last. They get a track with some rubber on it, less sun on it and better air. Not fair to the first pair. I haven't explained my possibly warped reasons for how I want to run races at my track yet and that enters into my decision a little bit.
I operated two different 1:1 drag strips back in the late 70's. I was the "refree" who was in charge of making it fair and also making it so very interesting that people wanted to come back next week. For three years I went to the American Hot Rod Association annual meeting of Track Owner's. We sometimes talked about "Growing a crop of new racers every year without ruining (or chasing off) the old ones." Yeah I know, the AHRA went out of business. But only after founder and Pres. Jim Tice died. Aaron Polburn, the IHRA President today was at those meetings. Anyway, I digress. Just like planting corn, we need to foster new racers and make the old ones go home happy too. If I only have classes for neo magnet, low ohm arms that need 27 volts at huge amps I'm going to lose the newbies that don't know what they are doing and don't see the reason to work that hard to get to the top in a slot car race. I also could/would lose those who either don't have the spendable $ for expensive toy cars or don't have the time to spend putting together a "killer combo". Either way I've hurt the attendance at my track. I really want the people that race at my track to have so much fun they want a track of their own and know how to run it so their races are fun too. If we could get to where their were 4 or 5 HO drag strips within an hours drive of my track that would be fantastic! Races for more people and on various days of the week. I have 12 racers who live within 45 minutes of my track who race as much as they can with the dates I allow. I also have invited about 6 different out of towners to visit us for a race. Yet at tonights race I had only 7 racers with 3 guys calling saying they were either having to work late or saying how frustrated they were to be missing a good time. What do I think the reasons for this response? Even the newbies have a fair shot at winning. When I ran the full size tracks we had bracket racing for Super Pro, Pro and Street Eliminator. At every drag strip in the country that races multiple bracket classes the are "Professional" Street Eliminator racers. That is, somebody that has been doing this for years and when they pull into the track on race night, they and everybody else knows they are going to make the Semi Finals at least and probably either win or runner up. That kills the field of racers. Any intelligent new guy knows he has a long learning curve to have a chance to win. Their friends are going to rag on them if they keep losing over and over. That's not much chance of fun. Ok...HO drags. If we race very fast cars with very low et's then the race is really just a reaction time race. Might as well just buy a reaction timer and race with that, no cars involved. Or ..pitch pennies as far as I'm concerned. If there are enough variables that the best guy can lose to the newest guy that's still fun too. It's one of the reasons that I run 18 volts and we use track supplied Parma 45 ohm controllers. I could go get 15 ohm controllers and the et's would be more consistant as would the reaction times. Remote starter switches would be better yet. I don't because I want three things to happen. One, the speed and consistency that you pull the trigger across the resistor becomes important. It's now a variable to winning. Two, the hit is much softer on the cars. We don't even need wheelie bars and I've been told that you MUST have wheelie bars to run. This makes it easier for all of us to have more cars to run without lots of time spend preparing them. Three, the cars seem to be more inconsistent and take longer to get to the finish line which at my track is a short 8'-9" 1/8th mile. If both cars were capable of running .010 et's with a range of .009 to .011 then almost all races would be won on reactio time only. Boring. And I would lose those of us that are not quite that good at reaction times. Currently we have one person who's ...ah... reaction time challenged. He still wins rounds due to the other guy either red lighting or his car falling off in performance or speeding up and breaking out. Does the better reation time guy who loses go home mad? No, he knows it was the car or his sloppy trigger finger. He still goes home with a desire to come back and kick butt. That's my goal. I want to have fun without my grandson, my grown son's and my son's-in-law who race with me to have to spend too much free time working on the cars. They need to have fun but get the job done on paying bills, spending time raising my little Grandkids properly and working for a better future for their families. (Don't need them needing me to support them because they spend too much time on our toys...fun or not.) My goal is to have fun, be safe, grow the sport and ..be logical on how we do it. So far...so good. Sorry for being so long...I should be able to collect an offering as this is longer than church was yesterday! I wouldn't be long if I wasn't passionate about drag racing. And yes...batteries are probably the better way to go overall.
|
|
|
|
Post by sst1610 on Sept 18, 2007 4:33:34 GMT -7
Your response really shows your passion for the sport. I feel the same. I've been dragracing since I was 9 with my dad, starting in junior drag racing. I love anything that has to do with it, full size, slot cars, video games. I found this site and I'm really interested in building a track to have fun. I dont want to spend tons of money on building the fastest car, I'd rather have it be affordable and have multiple cars. My dad, girlfriend, her father, and 3 or 4 of my close buddies are all looking to race and have a good time in my garage this winter. I was reading some info on other tracks, and was wondering; if I build a track with continuous tie wire do I need to make multiple taps under the track? Thanks for all the help,
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by SKR on Sept 18, 2007 5:49:03 GMT -7
Great info Chris!
Our group has more fun with Brackets and Index racing. These classes will be run every night we run. A new racer would not have any fun if you told them that they had to race heads up against my car, then tell them I've been racing and tuning these cars for 20 years. The new guy wouldn't have a chance. We have a few heads up classes at our track to encourage building. They are not as popular as Bracket/index racing but they are here for anybody that wants to race them. Drag racing wouldn't be what it is today if guys didn't push the envelope and build to the best of their abilities. Brackets/Index are much more enjoyable to me because I really don't have the time (yeah I do, Just lazy) to build heads up type of cars to compete with the local hot shot "Cheating Chuck" Good thing he can't cut a light ;D. It would be interesting to here the view's from a track with nothing but heads up racing.
Dave, we only put in one tap at our stating line. We never got around to adding another one about mid track. We do plan on giving Psycho Slots Dragway a facelift next month and will be adding another tap.
|
|
|
|
Post by sst1610 on Sept 18, 2007 9:04:04 GMT -7
What are the benefits of multiple taps. I was just planning on running the tie wire down underneth the track at the starting line and soildering the wires to them. Thanks
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by killer on Sept 18, 2007 12:45:09 GMT -7
sam, i see you don't know what your talking about again, see you satuday. killer
|
|
|
|
Post by SKR on Sept 18, 2007 14:20:13 GMT -7
Not sure about the benefits of extra taps on a track that has continuous rail and is only 15'3". I'm sure someone can chime in on it.
|
|
|
|
Post by allstarhr on Sept 18, 2007 16:05:51 GMT -7
If I'm correct, the reason for multiple taps is that not enough current flows on the surface of the wire and with additional taps you add to it, therefore the cars will go faster. Kevin Shaw from fulltiltspeedway.com who built my track didn't use round wire. He uses a flat wire with rounded corners that has more surface area and therefore flows more current. Sort of like oversized plastic track wire. I'm not sure how much more current can flow and as my lengthy disortation above states, I don't really care to have the fastest track or cars. Just a somewhat level playing field that doesn't encourage $300. cars. No need for one if the track can't flow enough current to make it work. It doe's eliminate the need some really nice, very good high performance parts suppliers though. Seem like nice people. Am I right about the current on the surface of small round wire being the problem for some?
|
|
|
|
Post by sst1610 on Sept 10, 2008 18:14:15 GMT -7
Ok, so about a year later I finally have all the supplies to build my track. I guess better late than never! I'm going with 2 batteries like I planned and I'm going to use the diagram that I found on the board. One question tho, should I soilder some 14 guage wire to the rebar tie wire on the bottom of the track, 1 rail each lane for the negative. Then the other rail to the controller taps? If anyone has some close of pics of your wiring that would be awesome. dd1615@aol.com Thanks
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by SKR on Sept 11, 2008 6:58:57 GMT -7
Good to hear your almost up and running Dave. As far as wiring to the track, drill holes close to the rail and soldered your wires to the rail. On the starting line tap we left the rails a little long on the end so they hung past the wood and tapped it there. Hope this helps you out Dave. Sam   |
|
|
|
Post by sst1610 on Sept 11, 2008 14:14:00 GMT -7
Thanks Sam, thats what I thought. I'm sorry for all the questions, I just have a few more. If I run a 10'' track, how long should the shut down be? and should I use rebar into the shutdown and just leave it unpowered? Also should I use 14 guage wire for everything? to the track, batteries and power taps? Last question, what did you use for power taps to hook the controls up to? Thanks alot, I really appreciate it. I just want get it right the first time.
Dave
|
|
. Our battery charger is a dual rate 2/6 amp charger with automatic Overcharge protection. I charge them at 2 amps, no need to cook them. Once the charger detects a full charge it goes into trickle mode ($30 at Autozone). After a night of racing we usally drop about .5 volts. Not enough for my dial ins to change. We do not run chargers on the batteries while we are racing although I have heard of some groups doing this to obtain a certain amount of volts.