Weight

Al , no need for such. We were both expressing opinions. Sorry if I was not clear about some things. Though both threads concerned weight one had.nothing to do with other.
As for the race....... it has been stated if rules not in compliance and not on schedule beforehand were used race would not count in NTRA points standings. So now what...... do we let that slide or let the wgt slide for this one ? Weight seems by far the lesser of two evils.

As you can see , I don't like weight limits. Don't think they belong inslot cars. Yep , they're in every form of motor racing. The great majority of which concern p/w ratio's in order to make things even. All of which became rules for politial reasons. The point I was trying to make with the 4/8 reference was that for both cars to have the same p/w ratio one would have to be much lighter than the other. Again sorry if that was not clear.
I understand your 8/12 reference......... look at it the other way. Both cars are made to carry the same weight. As stated by several people weight has less effect on a faster car. So however much it is slowed a slower car is slowed even more. Suppose they were slowed by 0.1 & 0.2. That creates a 0.1 gap that did not exist before. Whatever the actual numbers the fact is one is handicap more than the other. This to is true for 1/1 racing.

We all like playing with the cars to have fun. To me restricting play makes less fun.

....... Peter

Since we were discussing weight I went ahead and did some tests with some surprising results.
The most surprising was a stock Dash T jet which I just bought since I have no stockers.
Stock it weighed 21 grams.
Average ET for 4 runs on both lanes at stock weight was 1.8130 @ 7 MPH even.
I added 8 grams bringing it up to 29 and ran it again. It went quicker and faster
running an average of 1.7367 and 7.32 MPH. I can understand the ET since tire
spin with those tiny tires would be effected but the MPH?
I then added another 8 grams bringing the weight up to 37 grams or almost twice the
starting weight. Again I was surprised as it went quicker and faster still.
It averaged 1.7126 at 7.51 MPH. Once again I think the ET was helped by less tire
spin but MPH getting better makes no sense to me. In previous tests I have found MPH
not effected much by 60' times. This was actually true with my full size cars to.
I then tested a quicker T jet which had bigger tires and some mods.
It did more like I expected running 1.0149 @ 13.76 mph avg. at 21 grams.
Adding 8 grams it slowed to 1.0704 @ 13.23 mph avg. Going up to 37 grams total
slowed it again to 1.1154 @ 12.66 mph.
Then I went to an inline stock car. It started at 22 grams and ran .7542 @ 16.55 mph
avg. Adding the 8 grams again it slowed to .7847 @ 16.53 mph avg.
I then took the weight off to see if performance came back and it did averaging .7525
@ 16.45 mph. MPH with this car did not seem to be effected by the weight with this car
but 3 hundredths loss in ET would equal roughly 4-6 carlengths in distance.
Placing of the weight was more important in the faster car as I had to move it forward
of center to keep the front end on the ground. The other cars were ok with it in the center.
Personally I agree with Peter, I am not a fan of weight restrictions, especially in the
modified classes. In the stock and near stock OK but why build a car with a good arm,
magnets and other parts then handicap it with a heavy weight body. Makes no sense to me.
Like I said before in the hot class I think it helped but I have proved to myself in the
slower classes, except for small tire T jets???, weight is a handicap.

I taped old T jet magnets to the top of the cars. Took 10 to get it up to 37 grams. This tells me I need a body made of lead to race stock T jets.
I will do a test on the fast cars and see if the results we got in the finals of the Outlaw race were a fluke or not.
Funny thing is the dead stock T jet is running as fast as the new stock 4 gears with bigger tires, magnets, and lower ohm armature.

Not sure where the 37 gram number came from or if this was just exaggerated to get a result. I really do appreciate the effort with all of the testing and numbers but when you add a 1/2oz to an ounce of weight to a car....it's going to slow down (I know the first car got faster). We are really only talking about a couple of grams in most cases not ounces. My cars are almost always heavy. Only had to add weight to 2 cars ever. I guess I must think different than everyone else. I think you would still get a result with a couple of grams but it would be much less dramatic. Not trying to stir the pot here.....I just don't understand how adding 16 grams (1 oz) of weight is a relative test to what is being discussed. My feelings about the weight issue is I will adapt either way. I don't agree with the argument being made but that really doesn't matter. I see less and less customized cars for our events these days and without weight limits........will that be affected further.......maybe it will have no effect at all. I hope that will be the case because I am a fan of the customizing.....amature or pro. I guess it's time to warm up the Dremel.

The 37 grams came from the 10 magnets I had taped to the top of the car.
I was curious as to what effect weight had on the cars and went way beyond
what any car would weight just to see what would happen. The tiny tires on the car
were in my opinion the main reason the car went quicker with even 16 grams added to it.
Why the speed was faster is a mystery to me as the other cars I tried slowed down in speed
and ET as I added the weight. When I took the weight off it slowed back down, actually dropped
back down to 6.9mph.
The only thing I can think of is that it is spinning for half the track before it catches and moves on
but almost doubling the weight and getting the result it did was surprising. I did check
the armature for resistance and it read 14 ohms which made it a good car to work with for
stock races. Stock Dash magnets read almost double what the old T jet magnets read on my
gauss meter.
If I enter a T jet in a stock small tire race it is going to be a brick after seeing this result.
I did break it in on my test track, when I first got it the speed was only 5 mph, it
improved all the way up to 7 which actually matched some of my newer stock 4 gears in speed
not ET however. The latest stock 4 gear I recently got hit 10 mph which was better than all
of the other newer ones I have.

I just feel that if testing to back up the discussion is going to be conducted then it should be more accurate to what the discussion is really about....and that is only a couple of grams. Not exaggerated weight that is 12 - 16 grams over what we are talking about. That just didn't make sense to me. Real data would interest me more. I know what the numbers will look like. I've seen it in my own testing. With my cars it has been negligible. To be honest the faster cars may benefit more without any weight limits. I never have spent a lot of time in that area so that may be where that next few hundredths comes from . At first I didn't like the idea of no weight limit, but I'm a creature of habit and I think that's where that came from. We have run these classes this way since I started on the forum. I don't care either way at this point....I will adapt for sure.