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Post by SKR on Apr 18, 2008 8:15:11 GMT -7
The super stock class rules should be up today. Basic rules will be no braided pick up shoes, any motor bushes with stock tjet armatures. What are some of the motor brushes and pick up shoes you guys have had good results with?? Tom from TSS Hobbies would like to put a package together for one stop shopping for the racers. Any help appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2008 15:55:52 GMT -7
Wizzard makes the copper brushes, the jlto brushes aren't too bad, and of course the cut silver brushes. REH might have the silver ones!
What about higher minimum ohm limit like 16 cause the 15 ohm stock arms are very rare. Unless someone has a source for 15 ohm arms they want to share. As for magnets will you be allowing red/white/green/blue/orange or the stock unpainted magnets?
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Post by johnbalich on Apr 20, 2008 22:19:19 GMT -7
16 ohm may be a good choice. I was just trying to set it low enough so there would be no problem meeting it, but I see that opened up its own can of worms!! A guy shouldn't have to buy 100 arms to find find the one freak that measures 15.1 ohms. Stand by for updates!!! lol
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Post by johnbalich on Apr 20, 2008 22:22:11 GMT -7
the sets at FRont range ho under hop us tips> magnets. The bottom two sets, listed as open rivet and closed rivet respectively.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 21:10:02 GMT -7
When selecting a motor I look for one that has a flat comm plate. Doesn't do any good to have the face of the metal plates not making contact with the motor brushes. Even small waves can cause the motor brushes to bounce in their holders - no electricity transfer means no power. I chuck the motor up in my dremel (the chuck is available at Walmart for ~ $11 and it holds the motor perfectly centered by holding the shaft. Here is a stock motor that has nasty fouling on the comm plate. I then use a flexible very fine grit polishing wheel (I bought a gunsmithing polishing wheel kit with a wide variety of grits) that I hold in my hand and touch it against the shaft & comm face while it is spinning and also to remove the old crusty layering that has built up on the copper face of the comm plate. Clean as a whistle afterwards. After the polishing is complete I can rotate the Dremel shaft by hand very slowly and I hold the motor at this angle so that I can look across the face of the comm plate and look for how flat it is. While you are rotating it you can see if it is flat or has rolling hills. Believe me you can't imagine how wobbly the comm plate can be. There are remedies to fix a comm plate that isn't flat but it doesn't always work.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 21:16:25 GMT -7
Since it's all about reducing friction in the drivetrain then this is a simple method. Take a dremel wire wheel and attack the teeth of the gears. Remove the top plate from the chassis first then take the center (idler) gear off the top plate and hold the wheel 90 degrees to the idler gear and remove some of those super tiny burrs on the teeth with the wheel. Make sure to wear eye protection as those wire brush pieces will fly off. They will embed in everything, soles of feet etc... If you can't or don't want to remove the other gears from the top plate then you can attack them with the wire wheel while they are still attached to the top plate. Make sure to put a little bit of oil on the shafts since they can spin up and you want that shaft lubed before doing so. The idea is to grind the teeth not get the gears spinning at 50 million rpm. Keep the gear rpms to a minimum if possible and work on the teeth. You will notice a difference in smoothness. This is the easy method. There is a messier method called lapping in the gears with paste or polishing compound. Works better though to lap them in but the wire wheel method works pretty darn good too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 21:25:53 GMT -7
So you think you've got a fast car? Could be lots of vibration that makes it sound fast when it really isn't. I used to use the old "ear dyno" but it lies to you big time. So the simplest solution is to make an inexpensive dyno. Radio Shack or eBay sells this voltmeter. I got a motor from a tape deck and glued it onto the voltmeter. Then I soldered the leads to the motor, put a hub and tire on the motor shaft...voila! Instant, portable dyno. Just make a power supply and solder alligator clips onto the wire ends. Then attach the clips to the pickup shoes of the chassis and then lower the rear wheel until it contacts and spins the dyno wheel. It will read a number on the volts - the higher that number then the faster the motor is spinning. You can use this dyno to help you find the fastest combo for your car. Swap between top plates, try different motor brushes in each cup, gently press up against the motor brushes on the underside and if the motor wants more spring pressure then it will respond with more rpms... Be VERY careful when adjusting the motor brush springs upward - you can ruin them easily by putting too much bend in them. You must remove the top plate and motor brushes to be able to properly adjust the pressure of the motor brush springs. Remember to match your power supply to what the power supply will be for the track that you are going to be running on since some motors run very well at 18 volts but terrible at 13.8 volts. One simple solution for an adjustable power source is an old train transformer that has the handle on it to allow you to increase/decrease the amount of power. Use your newly acquired voltmeter to set the DC power output of the train track transformer.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 23:09:12 GMT -7
What is air-gapping? It's cutting/grinding down the outside dimension of the metal lams to make them all the same distance from the motor shaft. Sort or making the outside of the circle center around the motor shaft. Why do it? It allows the motor to be centered in the chassis and you can also shim the magnets closer to the motor for more power/torque. Sometimes a motor that isn't air-gapped will strike a motor magnet if the magnet is shimmed too close to the motor. You also get an equal attraction force from the metal lams towards the magnets. That smooths out the motor - sort of like when you rode your Huffy bike as a kid and each time you'd push downward on a pedal the bike would surge forward then slow down until you pushed downward on the other pedal. The motor behaves like this if the lams are differing distances from the motor shaft. I use a fine stone and hold it against the edge of the motor while it is spinning at a high rpm. Make sure you do this step before you balance your motor as you are removing metal. The outside edge of the lam will look like so when finished. I try to hit 60-70% of the exposed edges - not all of it but nearly all of it. I don't want to remove too much metal. In this pic I pretty much hit 100% of this end - that means that one of the remaining two ends doesn't have much metal removed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 23:20:06 GMT -7
How to balance a motor? I like razor blades, long ones too. I bought some at Home Depot and then got a couple bolts, washers & nuts and sandwiched the razor blades in between the washers. Works well enough for me. I do the initial balancing on this device then move the motor over to a jeweler's balancing tool. It's got very fine/sharp edges to rest the motor shaft on to do very detailed balancing. Once the motor stops turning I use a Dremel diamond wheel to cut a slot into the metal lam and remove metal. Remember it is the side that ends up on the bottom that you want to grind away at. Remember it's a diamond wheel - it will buzz clean through the metal lam in a hurry so go slow and don't take off too much. You'll also cut into the wires and ruin your motor if you get careless. (BTDT). Here are some slots that I cut into the lams to remove weight. Another method of balancing is to add lead weight. You can cut slivers of lead off fishing weights to add to the motor. Remember, if you use this technique that you will have to add the lead weight to the TOP of the motor when it stops on the razor blades. You can see a square of lead on the right side of the motor that I added on the top of the comm plate and to the inside of the end of the lam. I use super glue to attach it to the comm plate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2008 23:29:08 GMT -7
Not all top plates are created equal... Look at these two pics and you can see the difference in the idler gear posts. One is rounded at the top and a tiny bit more narrow, the other has sides that go straight up and is a bit wider. If you've used the wire wheel trick to grind at the teeth of the top plate gears but your car still sounds loud & raspy then you might have some sloppy gear lash. Hold the motor pinion and keep it from moving then use your other free hand to move the rear gear on the top plate back and forth and watch what happens to your middle (idler) gear. If you've got the round top center post I bet you've got some sloppy movement of the center gear when you go back and forth with the outside gears. If you've got the top plate that has the straight sides going upward then you are in luck since you've got one that doesn't have lash problems. Solution??? A fellow named Rick Terry at RT-HO.com has built a tool that will expand your anemic round top post outward and therefore eliminate the slop in your drivetrain. Notice that his tool drives a metal point into the plastic idler post and therefore expands it. Make sure your idler gear is ON the post when you are smashing the post otherwise you could mash it too much and bind your idler gear.
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Post by SKR on Apr 24, 2008 5:45:54 GMT -7
Excellent tuning tips Tony. These are very helpful.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2008 16:39:59 GMT -7
So how do you adjust the motor brush springs for more upward pressure. Here's a stock chassis with no adjustments. Notice one side is lower than the other. They don't necessarily have to be even - I just adjust upward the one that responds to higher rpms when I push against it while the car is running on a power supply. Remember this next race has a track that is set at 13.8 volts. Test your car at that voltage if possible. Notice the tiny screwdriver pushing upward from the bottom of the chassis. Be careful to not push too much at first - start small and see what happens. Here it is after adjustment.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2008 16:43:11 GMT -7
Here are some that have been adjusted for LOTS of pressure. Of course you can adjust them too much and totally dork them up ruining the chassis. Ruined motor brush spring:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2008 16:48:20 GMT -7
Something that can rob horsepower is the motor brushes spinning in the brush cups. The JL brush on the left already has a notch in the bottom of it. What do you do with a stock replacement brush? The Wizzard brush on the right has a notch carved into it with an Xacto blade. Be careful when doing so as you can slice through the motor brush with too much downward pressure. Another method is to make a tool from a pair of needle nose pliers that has a U shaped end. You can then grab the motor brush spring and squeeze it to make the end of the brush spring a U shape. The points on the ends dig into the motor brush and keep it from rotating. This can be a dangerous exercise as I've ruined more brushes than helped. If the rules stated "motor brushes cannot be altered in any manner" then this is a good method from keeping the motor brush from spinning in the brush cup while the motor is running. (Bunny hairs on the chassis are no charge).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2008 16:53:15 GMT -7
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