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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 10:07:05 GMT -7
I am surely open to any challenges and welcome them. No one wants to chance running such fast cars on their track because of possible breakage even at 20 volts and that is understandable. I am sure with more amperage these cars will go a lot faster. With 2 fully charged 12 volt batteries in parallel, (such batteries can read near 28 volts total), 100 mph is not out of the question and no track on this site will handle that. Limiting voltage is the only way I can see to effectively limit the speeds reached. If current is limited that will completely kill performance. At 26 volts and 1 amp the quick cars would hardly move. Without my 2 10 amp supplies in parallel top speeds have gone down 5-10mph on the fast cars. Dave, not picking but curious  ?? batteries in parallel would not increase voltage, although they may increase amperage availability? batteries in series WOULD increase voltage because the voltage of each battery would be added together and OHMs would be increased as well. I have had 2(two) 12(twelve) volt batteries in series and actual voltage measured on track was slightly in excess of 25(twenty five) volts when I had a 1/24 scale dragstrip, 55 feet timed, we used deisel truck batteries (D-8) at 12(twelve) volts each in parallel, with an industrial power charger on them, to total 16(sixteen) volts. I had a boat switch (still have it in fact) that allowed me to use 2(two) batteries at a time, either pair as per choice, or all four at one time which increased the available OHMs but didn't change the voltage to the track. in HO, I have been part of using many combinations of battery voltage in series to attain desired total and I learned some of that from seasoned track owners and racers. you seem to have just used PARALLEL when you meant SERIES in your " With 2 fully charged 12 volt batteries in parallel, ......" statement. |
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Post by pceng on Apr 10, 2015 11:07:56 GMT -7
SJ, not sure what kind of turnout would be had if your talking about unlimited classes. ginal post hang to do with them. Or high performance parts. It was a suggestion that allowing people.to.wind their own arms to class specs in classes.that.allow balancing and such.might.help in drawing.more participants. I to think mm/ps to costly...... and the way prices have been going up makes outlaws more than I'm wanting to.spend on a single.car. My mountain motor cars were built from road.cars I had. For two.years I've tried to find an alternative to using a.G3........ Remember Sam, posting that the club record for the class was set with, a Tyco ! But after trying every possible thing I could think of there is no way to achieve this if in accordance to rules. M/mags.in G's are.just to much bigger & stronger.
Since nobody has actually come up with a downside to the original post other than echoing what they've been told, I will.
When two arm that ohm the same, no matter who did the winding have the same voltage applied. The genetated magnetic field is the same. Simple physics. However how wire was wrapped could possibly make a difference. Care is taken when winding custom arms that.wires.lay next to one another. Often factory or machine wound arms will have wires that cross over other wraps. And this can possibly cause what is called technijargon (spelling ?). What that amounts to is a fluctuation in the wave of electric flow.
Now if this possible fluctuation can cause a difference in the rate that each pole loads & unloads as the arm rotates. Then I could see a difference between the two. But as any difference would.be minimal at best...... and all agree matching parts is most important. What difference does it make who wound the arm ?
40, 50 years ago factory arms were available at hobby stores these same stores were the ones making rules and running races to help move product ! Business.practice !
As it has been said...... both the site and proxy racing have evolved. I think this could be another step in that evolution. But as with all other changes that have taken place would need actual discussion. Without all the tangents being brought up that don't have anything to do with it.
......... Peter
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Post by Phantom B.S.E. on Apr 10, 2015 11:38:46 GMT -7
Get you and your followers of your idea and build it, race it, and share the details of the builds and the results with all of us. You only need 2 racers to match race your cars and like I said before let the results help people decide on weather we need any changes for the future.
If no one is willing to do a test challenge than the answer would be we don't need to change anything, because of lack of interest.
Time to stop talking and start doing or shut the hell up!
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lewis
Pro Stock
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Post by lewis on Apr 10, 2015 12:16:20 GMT -7
To add to the above I don't run pancake style chassis I know there are some of those Tha allow winding but unless I mistaken and i may be there isn't any inline classes that allow custom arms. Im not trying to change anything here the rules were here before I was so I'm good with what y'all have I have the one race a year I can run for now if I can get time to finish my track I might try to add one more to that. Lewis the N3 inline class allows Custom Winds up to 3ohms. This will be run at the Summer Nationals this year. The body type will be the Modern Funny Car. So wind that arm and slam that Funny Car body and lets have some fun. hey eagle on the body. Is it resin or does it matter. I only have lexan bodies. I have a lexan funny car. |
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Post by dave632 on Apr 10, 2015 12:34:44 GMT -7
I am surely open to any challenges and welcome them. No one wants to chance running such fast cars on their track because of possible breakage even at 20 volts and that is understandable. I am sure with more amperage these cars will go a lot faster. With 2 fully charged 12 volt batteries in parallel, (such batteries can read near 28 volts total), 100 mph is not out of the question and no track on this site will handle that. Limiting voltage is the only way I can see to effectively limit the speeds reached. If current is limited that will completely kill performance. At 26 volts and 1 amp the quick cars would hardly move. Without my 2 10 amp supplies in parallel top speeds have gone down 5-10mph on the fast cars. Dave, not picking but curious ?? batteries in parallel would not increase voltage, although they may increase amperage availability? batteries in series WOULD increase voltage because the voltage of each battery would be added together and OHMs would be increased as well. I have had 2(two) 12(twelve) volt batteries in series and actual voltage measured on track was slightly in excess of 25(twenty five) volts when I had a 1/24 scale dragstrip, 55 feet timed, we used deisel truck batteries (D-8) at 12(twelve) volts each in parallel, with an industrial power charger on them, to total 16(sixteen) volts. I had a boat switch (still have it in fact) that allowed me to use 2(two) batteries at a time, either pair as per choice, or all four at one time which increased the available OHMs but didn't change the voltage to the track. in HO, I have been part of using many combinations of battery voltage in series to attain desired total and I learned some of that from seasoned track owners and racers. you seem to have just used PARALLEL when you meant SERIES in your " With 2 fully charged 12 volt batteries in parallel, ......" statement. Correct, series would add voltage, parallel would add amperage. After 30 years as an electronics tech I should have caught that but I make mistakes too as does everyone else. Do not know what you mean by, "available OHMs", however, did you mean amps or current or were there resistors shunting the power in different ways to adjust voltage? I have put batteries on a normal auto car battery charger and with the charger still on it I have had readings as high as 13.8 volts. An industrial one could possibly push that even higher. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 16:19:12 GMT -7
Dave, LOL,
yeah, I meant AMPs. you got me ... LOL
we're even! LOL
a twelve volt battery pushed by a good charger/power supply can provide 16+ volts.
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Post by dave632 on Apr 10, 2015 17:04:52 GMT -7
Yea Al as soon as we stop making errors we will all move to
a new planet where no one makes a mistake.
I don't doubt a top quality charger would not be able to get a
12v battery peaking at 16v.
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Post by AJR on Apr 10, 2015 17:49:07 GMT -7
Lewis the N3 inline class allows Custom Winds up to 3ohms. This will be run at the Summer Nationals this year. The body type will be the Modern Funny Car. So wind that arm and slam that Funny Car body and lets have some fun. hey eagle on the body. Is it resin or does it matter. I only have lexan bodies. I have a lexan funny car. Lewis it has to be resin body. All the classes are that way. There is a reason for that but I don't remember the reasoning. Cordell could answer that question best. Don't let that discourage you. There is plenty of time to get a resion body set up for the chassis. We are way ahead of the game at this point. Think about it. Would like to see you entered. Great info. about the place in Irving. I will check that out this weekend. That's too funny that I'm getting this info. from some one out of state....lol. I will be honest....I haven't spent a huge amount of time trying to find these tucked away places, but the time I have spent has been a dead end. You almost have to hear about them like this....random word of mouth. Thanks again. Had to edit my post....I found it online!!! I bet I've probably driven by it a dozen times and never seen it. I will be going there to check it out tomorrow. Thanks again man!! I will let you know. |
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Post by AJR on Apr 10, 2015 17:51:13 GMT -7
Dave, not picking but curious ?? batteries in parallel would not increase voltage, although they may increase amperage availability? batteries in series WOULD increase voltage because the voltage of each battery would be added together and OHMs would be increased as well. I have had 2(two) 12(twelve) volt batteries in series and actual voltage measured on track was slightly in excess of 25(twenty five) volts when I had a 1/24 scale dragstrip, 55 feet timed, we used deisel truck batteries (D-8) at 12(twelve) volts each in parallel, with an industrial power charger on them, to total 16(sixteen) volts. I had a boat switch (still have it in fact) that allowed me to use 2(two) batteries at a time, either pair as per choice, or all four at one time which increased the available OHMs but didn't change the voltage to the track. in HO, I have been part of using many combinations of battery voltage in series to attain desired total and I learned some of that from seasoned track owners and racers. you seem to have just used PARALLEL when you meant SERIES in your " With 2 fully charged 12 volt batteries in parallel, ......" statement. Correct, series would add voltage, parallel would add amperage. After 30 years as an electronics tech I should have caught that but I make mistakes too as does everyone else. Do not know what you mean by, "available OHMs", however, did you mean amps or current or were there resistors shunting the power in different ways to adjust voltage? I have put batteries on a normal auto car battery charger and with the charger still on it I have had readings as high as 13.8 volts. An industrial one could possibly push that even higher. Drag City in Colorado runs 2 batteries for power and I remember them saying that they put out 27v completely charged up. |
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Post by AJR on Apr 10, 2015 18:01:24 GMT -7
So running at a lower voltage is dumb, why has NHRA shortened the race length for TF and FC. In the past they have also lowered the amount of Nitro allowed to slow the cars down. They were trying to save some lives and equipment, here we are just trying to save equipment. Seems like the opposite is true here where slower cars are given more volts to make them look better. I also say if I am beating you at 20 volts I will beat you by a bigger margin at 26 volts. No one is asking you to run in a class you don't want to. Trying to give racers more options and classes seems like it will bring in more racers. Allow us to pick and choose what we like and ignore what we don't want to race in. Lewis likes to see how quick he can make his cars go. I surely see nothing wrong with that. I am looking forward to his fast cars running at my future races. There is also no need to change any rules, just add an Outlaw or Experimental class at the top of the chain where custom winds are allowed in T Jet, AFX and Inline. If I am not mistaken in the rules there are a couple of X classes that are not filled in yet, X4 and X5. here is the spot for a top class for those cars. There are enough classes for beginners on this site. The bracket race, (perfect class for beginners), I held did not bring many entries. Lets us have some classes for those who want to see how quick we can go. There will surely be those at any race I hold. Very good points here Dave. The 4g unlimited class was started by Eagle and I having a grudge match at the first Summer Nationals race. That class is typically only run a couple of times a year by us and it turned out to be pretty popular and innovative class. More than we ever thought it would. Yes the classes you are talking about can only be run at specific tracks....so let it be that way. No problem with that. The things you are talking about are very similar. We will never know until you/someone runs them. |
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Post by AJR on Apr 10, 2015 18:43:02 GMT -7
Lewis the N3 inline class allows Custom Winds up to 3ohms. This will be run at the Summer Nationals this year. The body type will be the Modern Funny Car. So wind that arm and slam that Funny Car body and lets have some fun. hey eagle on the body. Is it resin or does it matter. I only have lexan bodies. I have a lexan funny car. Lewis the AW modern funny car bodies are legal for the class and that would be a pretty easy adaptation. Just a suggestion. Not sure if you know where to access the body rules or not. There is a link at the top of the rules directory that will take you to them....FYI. |
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lewis
Pro Stock
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Post by lewis on Apr 10, 2015 22:51:33 GMT -7
Jeff its in between homeplex ct and missy lane. If you are going north on loop 12 and take shady grove exit hang a left its about two miles on the right. I ran across it trying to find some parts for Tyco cars for my daughter. I used to pickup at Americas beverage on thingyerel hill rd when I ran Texas dedicated. I will look into the races more as soon as I get a chance. Work is killing me lol
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Post by dave632 on Apr 11, 2015 8:44:46 GMT -7
So running at a lower voltage is dumb, why has NHRA shortened the race length for TF and FC. In the past they have also lowered the amount of Nitro allowed to slow the cars down. They were trying to save some lives and equipment, here we are just trying to save equipment. Seems like the opposite is true here where slower cars are given more volts to make them look better. I also say if I am beating you at 20 volts I will beat you by a bigger margin at 26 volts. No one is asking you to run in a class you don't want to. Trying to give racers more options and classes seems like it will bring in more racers. Allow us to pick and choose what we like and ignore what we don't want to race in. Lewis likes to see how quick he can make his cars go. I surely see nothing wrong with that. I am looking forward to his fast cars running at my future races. There is also no need to change any rules, just add an Outlaw or Experimental class at the top of the chain where custom winds are allowed in T Jet, AFX and Inline. If I am not mistaken in the rules there are a couple of X classes that are not filled in yet, X4 and X5. here is the spot for a top class for those cars. There are enough classes for beginners on this site. The bracket race, (perfect class for beginners), I held did not bring many entries. Lets us have some classes for those who want to see how quick we can go. There will surely be those at any race I hold. Very good points here Dave. The 4g unlimited class was started by Eagle and I having a grudge match at the first Summer Nationals race. That class is typically only run a couple of times a year by us and it turned out to be pretty popular and innovative class. More than we ever thought it would. Yes the classes you are talking about can only be run at specific tracks....so let it be that way. No problem with that. The things you are talking about are very similar. We will never know until you/someone runs them. Yes Jeff. If we could allow custom winds of say 5-6 ohm in something like an X4 class it might bring in some racers who want to experiment. Personally I HATE winding arms but I might give it a shot just to try something different. I had a custom wound 6 ohm arm that was getting its butt kicked by my best stock 6 ohm pancake so they are not always the best. That arm also burned up while the stockers keep going. |
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Post by pceng on Apr 12, 2015 9:03:57 GMT -7
Was just looking at rules for 4g's.and X-tracs. Both have the.same body mount....... projection. All of the 4g classes cover this point by allowing removal or by daylighting between magnets. If the rules as read for X-classes remain as is. Use of anything but an X-trac body will be a trick & a half or just not possible.
If this is meant to be, fine. If not it does need to be addressed. The X-classes would be the only ones that put a.damper.on the use of resin bodies or anything not made by AW for X-tracs.
......... Peter
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Post by Phantom B.S.E. on Apr 12, 2015 10:10:04 GMT -7
Was just looking at rules for 4g's.and X-tracs. Both have the.same body mount....... projection. All of the 4g classes cover this point by allowing removal or by daylighting between magnets. If the rules as read for X-classes remain as is. Use of anything but an X-trac body will be a trick & a half or just not possible. If this is meant to be, fine. If not it does need to be addressed. The X-classes would be the only ones that put a.damper.on the use of resin bodies or anything not made by AW for X-tracs. ......... Peter
If the rule was changed for running X3 in 2016 class I would be all for it as long as I saw a lot of sweet custom detailed rides and not just stock plastic bodies that look like common street cars. |
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