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Post by SKR on Jul 1, 2016 11:19:54 GMT -7
Hey guys, Thought I'd start up a conversation about running more Outlaw style classes. Flashlight, no-prep drag racing is really hot right now and noticeably more popular than NHRA pro drag racing. Would you guys like to have more Outlaw classes? I was thinking of the following to keep costs reasonable;
Nitro-Slot Outlaws
- T-jet - Gasser build chassis
- X-Traction - Currently running with no weight restrictions
- 4G - Door Slammer 25 gram weight minimum
- Inline - MM/PS 22 gram weight minimum
As long as your chassis is within the class rules then anything goes meaning any style car bodies. I like having a weight minimum so that details can be added such as chutes, blowers, wings etc.. I posed a question about entering more than 2 cars for each class in another thread and opening up the list to 10 cars....... My thought was that a newbie might feel they have a shot at the list if there were 10 positions. Obviously I should have put more thought into that because the top 5 guys will most likely occupy the bottom half of the list with their #2 car. A top10 list should be posted even if there are only 7-8 racers. We'd just identify the empties as vacant spots that are up for grabs.
Thoughts, Ideas?
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Post by sjracer on Jul 1, 2016 12:07:01 GMT -7
My thoughts on 2 cars is as follows interest/participation is down right now so why not 2 cars. As participation picks up up to 11- 15 people then restrict it to 1 car. That way you have your top 10 as well as a shark pool. That way the list would be easily amendable race to race.
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Post by AJR on Jul 2, 2016 8:18:21 GMT -7
I am pretty flexible any way this goes, but if I had to choose, it would be one car per racer. My thinking is the build becomes more critical to the surface. You either get it right or you dont. Just like in the show...you race the road. Sometimes they get it right and others they blow the tires off. A second car is almost like a "do over". The spot becomes much more important as well. If we did go to two cars, and once a racer that has two cars on the list makes it to the top 3 or 4, their second car drops off and the spot it occupied opens up. To me at that point the second car becomes more of a blocker while the first car is getting the focus. Spot blocking should not be allowed at all due to the races being potentially far apart. Everybody needs to show for the races or forfeit. Believe me I know how "life" can get in the way when I say that.
I like the idea of the Outlaw Classes too. All of the best builds from each chassis. Every one of those with exception of Xtraction always have the best customs as well. Great idea.
One more thing. Sam you and I have previously talked about this. I would like to propose that we allow braids on the Pro Street / Pro Street Outlaw (X2) build. It is currently the only pancake build that allows 6ohm pancake motors but does not allow braids. I think the lower ohm arm needs them to run properly. It would also bring consistency to the cars on a multitude of racing surfaces that we hope to be seeing. As it stands right now Pro Street and PSO have run on Maxx Trax, Elite, and this weekend AW this year. Just my thoughts. Thanks Sam for bringing all of this up.
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Post by nosubfor3 on Jul 2, 2016 12:49:56 GMT -7
As far as pro street outlaw, I like the one car per entry. It is like an exibition race for this group as no points are awarded.It is more true to the show. Yea Cheif and Shaun are teamed but they each only have one car. We could just say two cars per and leave it to the invividual as with every other class we run. Either vote I'm still raceing.Introducing outlaw class's is a good idea in respect to seeing how fast a particular chassis can be built to run. ie-4 gears running sub sonic speed. Keeping cost reasonable is essential. I'm interested in what parts will be allowed. Custom wound low ohm arms get quit pricey and get toasted in a flash. I'm with JJ on the braids request. If others do not feel comfortable with their solder skills to solder braids I'm very sure one of us can help.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 14:55:51 GMT -7
As far as pro street outlaw, I like the one car per entry. It is like an exibition race for this group as no points are awarded.It is more true to the show. Yea Cheif and Shaun are teamed but they each only have one car. We could just say two cars per and leave it to the invividual as with every other class we run. Either vote I'm still raceing.Introducing outlaw class's is a good idea in respect to seeing how fast a particular chassis can be built to run. ie-4 gears running sub sonic speed. Keeping cost reasonable is essential. I'm interested in what parts will be allowed. Custom wound low ohm arms get quit pricey and get toasted in a flash. I'm with JJ on the braids request. If others do not feel comfortable with their solder skills to solder braids I'm very sure one of us can help. HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!! highlighted phrases are contradictory. I have run "outlaw" classes in several scales and chassis designs. none have reasonable costs. I have (a long time ago) set ET records in 1/24 and 1/64(HO) how ever short lived. in both cases, the cars were rolling grenades. if you got more than 6 passes out of each you were considered fortunate. more times than I care to count cars have exploded on their maiden pass. hard to qualify for an event with parts scattered all over the venue. however ... on one occasion, I was 3rd fastest with my first pass as the car disintegrated from the 60' mark on. was able to rebuild that with all new parts save the rear and chassis and then eclipsed the ET record with the second pass. the 1/64 inline cars are in the $170 - $200 cost range. the 1/24 funny cars were in the $400+ range. the motor alone cost $200+. I support everything being attempted here, but it takes money to go fast in any scale. |
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Post by AJR on Jul 2, 2016 15:21:09 GMT -7
I don't believe that is what was meant by "Outlaw" guys...more like "Street Outlaw" not "unlimited outlaw". Class rules are already in place for Tjet Gasser, 4g Doorslammer, current Xtraction which is Pro Street and MM/PS. Yes Al true outlaw classes are expensive but I don't believe that is what Sam had in mind with the suggestion or Nosub with his thoughts. I'm thinking separate top 5 or top 10 lists for each of the Outlaw Classes?? Sam would need to clarify, but that's the way I took it.
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Post by nosubfor3 on Jul 2, 2016 15:32:36 GMT -7
I have never built any type of outlaw chassis as you have. So my interest is in how fast some one can get a t-jet or AFX etc.to go.Reading post from other sites I know one needs deep pockets and builds have a short life. Which is why I am curious what parts will make up any outlaw class. Outlaw in any form of raceing is a high roller field. Heck when I was road raceing my poly mod car was $200.00. And that was about 5 years ago. My thought on "cost Reasonable" is anything goes except a high dollar low life expectence arm.But I think we already have class's like that. Sam what are some of your ideas on a outlaw chassis build? AFX non-mag for example.
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Post by nosubfor3 on Jul 2, 2016 15:36:11 GMT -7
I don't believe that is what was meant by "Outlaw" guys...more like "Street Outlaw" not "unlimited outlaw". Class rules are already in place for Tjet Gasser, 4g Doorslammer, current Xtraction which is Pro Street and MM/PS. Yes Al true outlaw classes are expensive but I don't believe that is what Sam had in mind with the suggestion or Nosub with his thoughts. I'm thinking separate top 5 or top 10 lists for each of the Outlaw Classes?? Sam would need to clarify, but that's the way I took it. If this is so then I have a better understanding. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 16:08:10 GMT -7
OK, I guess I totally missed the point.
some of the gear plates I have seen for 4 gear are out of my league though
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Post by SKR on Jul 2, 2016 17:54:18 GMT -7
my thoughts were to keep costs down. Listed above are the class of builds that I thought we could use per chassis type. Besides MM/PS all classes would basically have the same rules; 5-ohm minimum for the armatures and ceramic motor magnets only. We all know how pure outlaw racing costs can become unattractive real fast. I can appreciate what those guys do however keeping a limit on arms and magnets is what I was proposing.
As Jeff mentioned, how would everyone feel about allowing braided pick up shoes in Pro-Street?
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Post by SKR on Jul 2, 2016 17:57:41 GMT -7
and shunts for Pro-Street? |
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Post by AJR on Jul 2, 2016 18:04:19 GMT -7
I would have to say yes on shunts too. I didn't want to seem greedy with my request  . |
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Post by SKR on Jul 2, 2016 18:08:19 GMT -7
We'll keep the one car per class for Outlaw racing.
Also, I forgot to add that there would be separate lists for each class.
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Post by sjracer on Jul 2, 2016 18:18:23 GMT -7
Cost is important especially if you desire to have more people involved, however Dash poly and neo magnets are relatively inexpensive under $10, perhaps that would influence the a builder's chassis choice. Even Nacho magnets are relatively inexpensive compare to say 10 years ago. I remember buying my first set of neo magnets from Slugger(?) in Paradise, Pa at Subaguru's race for I believe about $40 or $50. Dash Super 2 arm, mean green, blue drag arm all under $10. I think a very fast and competitive car could be had in three gear Outlaw for around $20 if we don't run custom arms. Which in my opinion, is closer to the rules we run in the MMP/S class, tjet Gasser and even the 4Gear DS class.
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Post by SKR on Jul 2, 2016 18:37:56 GMT -7
Here's another thought since we're spit ballin 
One Pancake class with 3 options to use for your car, kind of like having options of NOS, Turbo or Super-Charged.
- T-Jet would use Nostalgia Pro Stock rules (stock arm)
- X-Traction; Pro Street rules with shunts and braids added. (Mean Green Arm)
- 4G, Door Slammer rules (Mean Green Arm)
I might be wrong but it seems the above builds would be similar in E/T's.
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