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Post by AJR on Mar 25, 2020 9:25:18 GMT -7
szzzper, I too have drag raced 1/24, 1/43 and 1/32 scales. in fact I was able to have a 1/24 next to a 1/64 track inside someone else's slot car hobby store. those days are long over. what I have learned over about 30+ years is that 1/64 scale has different desires than larger scale. I have also had portable 1/64 track (sold a few weeks ago) and ran two to three races per year at a motorcycle club hall. I tried indexes and bracket (dial in) races and few were interested. what really got a lot of folks out on race day was heads up class racing with specific builds allowed. I respect your well meaning suggestion as I do think everyone here does and you might spark a discussion that could take us in another direction. so, thank you for your thoughts and suggestions. review our rules and classes. JJWallace is hosting a proxy race this coming weekend, so please have a look at the posts he puts up and see if you might be interested in joining us at future events. I agree with Al here as well. Although I am not experienced in any "on site" racing. I have only had the pleasure of proxy racing. I also have not ever tried an index class. It would be challenging to tune for that, but definitely possible. But I have had good luck with a couple of Brackets races. I think the main reason I have had good luck and turnout with the Bracket races is because I allow any car...any build to run. Cars that never get to run...a racers favorite car...etc. It is an opportunity for those cars to get some track time. Have to have good drivers for a Bracket race though. No first timers. |
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Post by szzzper on Mar 25, 2020 11:54:27 GMT -7
I’m a heads up racer at heart. I like index racing. It’s like heads up, but with a breakout. I was a proxy driver when the late Steve James was doing proxy races on his track. “Desert Run Raceway”. Was just bracket racing. A lot of fun.
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Post by AJR on Mar 25, 2020 17:04:23 GMT -7
I’m a heads up racer at heart. I like index racing. It’s like heads up, but with a breakout. I was a proxy driver when the late Steve James was doing proxy races on his track. “Desert Run Raceway”. Was just bracket racing. A lot of fun. I remember Desert Run Raceway. He ran good races. I patterned my races after his and Rick Voeglins. Good times! |
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Post by dave632 on Mar 25, 2020 17:04:55 GMT -7
Right Al. The sportsman tree uses the 3 light system usually at .5 intervals. Index races are heads up but you cannot run under your index. They will generally use a Pro .4 tree but occasionally they will use a sportsman tree. This is where you will see the cars that leave the line hard, then look like they died, then after a specific time the car will accelerate hard. This is all done with throttle timers. Makes for a strange race but it is done so that the faster trailing car can better judge if they are going to overtake the leading car and by how much. Those classes are usually decided in the thousandths. I have only tried one bracket race and it was tough. You have to have 2 drivers with similar reflexes. I had to put a blinder on the tree as it was to easy for us to hit it as soon as we saw the flash of green as the lights are close together. A .400 tree was to slow for these cars as we were cutting lights in the .2s and .3s. I ended up setting the tree at .1 and have never had a red light since. I would enjoy bracket racing if we could all get together live.  |
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Post by hairycanary on Mar 25, 2020 22:13:54 GMT -7
I never did like racing a race that if you go to fast you loose, or have to slow down to win. Drag racing was who had the fastest car. In a perfect drag racing world it would be all heads up racing. But there’s to many indifferent cars. The cars that there is no class for can run a bracket class or a index class with other indifferent cars. I think we kinda fall in that category to. I think we all have cars we would like to run but there’s no class for it. I think the bracket class suites that good. But it seems like it would be a hard race to run for the RaceMasters ? I would rather race in a index class just because it’s a heads up start, but I think it would be hard to tune a car to be consistent or close for a particular set index ? If we was at the race and running and tuning our cars at that race it would work. I think our type of proxy races heads up pro styles racing is the best. Dave if you decide to try a index class I’m in. I think it would be fun and worth a try.
Rick
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Post by dave632 on Mar 26, 2020 8:25:34 GMT -7
Rick I too like the heads up the best but especially in full size it can be very expensive. When I was racing the Beretta back in the early 2000s it was costing me about 1,000 a month just for racing the car once a month with one test and tune. This included transport, fuel, tires, entry fees, general items and broken parts. That of courses did not
include the initial cost of the car, trailer and tow vehicle. Having said that I don't regret it one bit. It was a blast. With a 1.07 60' time it was like being shot out of
a cannon. Even with our HO cars some of the cars like the Unlimiteds can be fairly expensive. Mine cost me about 120.00 each to build and I have to assemble them myself. This is probably the reason the class has not caught on.
I will definitely give an index class a try at my next race. I am thinking 1.0 as time as it seems a time that should be easy to reach for almost any chassis/car. What do you think? It is going to be difficult to predict how the racers cars will run on my track which will make it pretty tough to tune for the race but it should be fun.
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Post by szzzper on Mar 26, 2020 8:53:37 GMT -7
A set voltage should be picked. That way racers can dial the cars in for that voltage. Guess track length too.
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Post by ecbill on Mar 26, 2020 10:02:26 GMT -7
Rick I too like the heads up the best but especially in full size it can be very expensive. When I was racing the Beretta back in the early 2000s it was costing me about 1,000 a month just for racing the car once a month with one test and tune. This included transport, fuel, tires, entry fees, general items and broken parts. That of courses did not include the initial cost of the car, trailer and tow vehicle. Having said that I don't regret it one bit. It was a blast. With a 1.07 60' time it was like being shot out of a cannon. Even with our HO cars some of the cars like the Unlimiteds can be fairly expensive. Mine cost me about 120.00 each to build and I have to assemble them myself. This is probably the reason the class has not caught on. I will definitely give an index class a try at my next race. I am thinking 1.0 as time as it seems a time that should be easy to reach for almost any chassis/car. What do you think? It is going to be difficult to predict how the racers cars will run on my track which will make it pretty tough to tune for the race but it should be fun. That’s a good point Dave, track differences will certainly make idexing a challenge. My cars consistently run faster at your track but at other venues the run slower than at home. Would it perhaps best to set a target index that could be fine tuned based on qualifying time. |
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Post by dave632 on Mar 26, 2020 11:44:12 GMT -7
Bill I am thinking of a target of 1.0 for the index. It would allow any car/chassis combo and you should also take into account that your cars might be a little quicker on my track.
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Post by ecbill on Mar 26, 2020 12:43:29 GMT -7
Bill I am thinking of a target of 1.0 for the index. It would allow any car/chassis combo and you should also take into account that your cars might be a little quicker on my track. If I’m understanding this correctly, the objective is to run as close as possible to the index without going under it. With that in mind, what happens if several entrants were to send cars that ran in the 1.020 range at home, only to have then run in the .9900s at the track? Would they be DQed right off the bat? |
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Post by dave632 on Mar 26, 2020 13:31:35 GMT -7
Yes Bill that is the idea of Index racing. 1.0000 is OK but .9999 is a loser. You would want to give yourself a cushion and of course send in a consistent car.
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Post by GTS on Mar 26, 2020 14:30:31 GMT -7
A set voltage should be picked. That way racers can dial the cars in for that voltage. Guess track length too. Dave's track is a scale 1000' or approximately 15.7'. I too would appreciate a voltage as soon as it's determined. I'm hopin' between 14 & 16v. |
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Post by wbj on Mar 26, 2020 15:23:55 GMT -7
Hi All, If most here are running proxy races index or brackets most likely not work. Index racing is done on a .400 tree, brackets on a .500 tree. I've raced these formats in both 1/24 and HO. Sometimes people overlook the challenge of either hitting a fixed "number" or a self determine time. These formats are good to help develop new racers and keep the veterans on their toes.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2020 17:47:47 GMT -7
welcome wbj .....
well said
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Post by dave632 on Mar 27, 2020 8:57:08 GMT -7
Seems like there is some interest in an index class do I will include it in my next race.
Gale I plan on running all by races at 20 volts so that will be what you need to work with. Should not be to hard to get a car down to 1.0. Even a lot of dead stock
inlines can run that. Getting it consistent will be the trick.
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