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Post by AJR on Feb 20, 2021 19:51:25 GMT -7
I believe the problem with that is that in super comp we can wind are own arms. So the bar is set at 5 ohm minimum. If I rewinded a dash arm with the same color wire say 4.8 ohm. A year or so goes by , I take stuff apart, mix it up...now I don't know wich I wound or wich is the dash. Also im thinking they are not all bad. Maybe something on the machine messed up and they got some bad ones. I honestly don't see why we can't wind are own arms for any class except maybe stock. I don't see why the who put the wire on the arm matters. As long as the ohm rule is met. Half this stuff we dig through and find, someone down the road could have put wire on. I'm actually doing some arms now. I got one bouncing from 4.9 to 5 ohm. I'm so mad ha ha ha. I'd rather have the over 5 ohm, put it all together to just be touching under 5 geeze!! The main reason custom winds are allowed in Super Comp is for a little more flexibility in the set up since it is the Class under Unlimited. It wasn't always that way. Used to be the only Class to allow custom winds was Unlimited. Also allows experimenting with custom winds a little more. Custom winds in every Class may give unfair advantage to some and not all. |
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Post by skillet on Feb 20, 2021 21:45:49 GMT -7
I agree with that. Not everyone is going to decide to try and wind arms. Took me years to finally do it. It also really makes the classes stand different from each other. Like you said it opens up a door for people wanting to wind arms something to shoot for besides a potentially fry the arm on first try lol.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2021 9:21:40 GMT -7
I have to agree.
OHMs is one important factor and limiting some classes to factory winds is necessary for those who don't rewind or cannot get access.
I also understand the need to experiment and do things our selves, leading to the desire to alter rules.
instead, I think considering additional classes that allow rewinds and advanced timing, as well as other possible improvements, could be a good thing.
I respect that current classes remain as they are.
but, perhaps, additional classes that recognize the desires and talents of some of our newer members might be in order.
I would like to clear the air on one particular subject ..... I ran 4 LAM *5* OHM arms from DASH in the last race without checking them.
I will certainly not use them again in a 5 OM class.
I have recently obtained 15 more of those arms with the help of a couple folks (thank you) and they all OHM in low 4's.
I think everyone knows by now that you have to get special permission to even purchase them directly from DASH.
at 4+ OHMs they don't really seem to fit any current rules competitively.
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Post by sjracer on Feb 21, 2021 12:25:36 GMT -7
I realize nobody asked me but, my 2 cents is as follows; Afx has been out of business for nearly 40 years. With that being said where are these armatures supposed to be found? If Afx made so many arms that 40 years later there is still an endless supply of fresh arms to be found no wonder they are out of business. If there is a modern day equivalent or something pretty close I don't think we can afford to be so closed minded as not to consider it. On the other side of it it I believe it's in the boards best interest to keep cost down as low as possible. A hand wound arm for every class would be expensive if you can't/don't wind your own and I don't. What happens if the package gets lost or the car smokes the arm during the event? I know when my inline outlaw was MIA my hear skipped beat.
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Post by swiftkart on Feb 21, 2021 17:55:45 GMT -7
I understand what you are saying Jeff and respect it, it just would have been nice to be able to run a stock over the counter 4.2-4.4 ohm arm with no timing or adjustments allowed to it against the custom wound, advanced timing arms and see how it competes. Oh well I guess I will have to see if I can get DC HO Motors or someone to build me a custom 5ohm motor with timing, $5 Dash vs $30 for a custom motor, man racing can get expensive, Lol
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Post by dave632 on Feb 21, 2021 19:31:47 GMT -7
I have had 14 ohm arms run better than a lot of 6 ohm mean greens. Hard to figure why that
happens. I once had someone write a note to me on e bay asking me why his buddies red tip is
beating his mean green, it happens. The thing is when everything is right the 14 ohm has no chance.
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Post by ecbill on Feb 22, 2021 8:12:20 GMT -7
I understand what you are saying Jeff and respect it, it just would have been nice to be able to run a stock over the counter 4.2-4.4 ohm arm with no timing or adjustments allowed to it against the custom wound, advanced timing arms and see how it competes. Oh well I guess I will have to see if I can get DC HO Motors or someone to build me a custom 5ohm motor with timing, $5 Dash vs $30 for a custom motor, man racing can get expensive, Lol In the past, race operators have been willing to run match races. If you want to run your dash arm in competition you could request a math race at a coming event. I like Dash products and have quite a few but the “5ohm”4 lam arm is not high performance. It looks like the factory just wound less turns of the same wire used in their 16 ohm. The wire looks kinda skimpy. Probably not making a strong magnetic field. Perhaps if they used a larger diameter wire with more turns it would perform better. |
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Post by dave632 on Feb 22, 2021 9:58:32 GMT -7
I agree with what Bill says. Looks like there is not enough magnet wire on the 4 ohm arm. All the ones I tried were under 5 ohms, most were in the low 4 ohm range. None ran as good as a good mean green. Larger wire/more turns would probably been a good idea.
I have had very good results with the mean green however which you can buy at Jag hobbies for $5. I believe these arms are an aftermarket replacement. Trying to look for an arm that is just a little better, 5.7 vs 5.0 is a waste of time in my opinion. You can buy 5-6 mean greens for the cost of one custom wound 5 ohm. I will put my orange 57 Chevy Nomad against any custom wound 5 ohm and bet on the 57 coming in first and that is a very well used mean green that has seen 100s of passes down the track. Don't sell those arms short. Watch it run at Jeff's upcoming race and see if it still has it after all these years. Still has the ceramic magnets in it as the poly's killed 3 mph off of it.
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Post by ecbill on Feb 22, 2021 10:18:33 GMT -7
Since rewinds are legal, I guess you could remove a few turns off of a mean green to try to get it down to 5 ohms.
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Post by AJR on Feb 22, 2021 13:46:12 GMT -7
I understand what you are saying Jeff and respect it, it just would have been nice to be able to run a stock over the counter 4.2-4.4 ohm arm with no timing or adjustments allowed to it against the custom wound, advanced timing arms and see how it competes. Oh well I guess I will have to see if I can get DC HO Motors or someone to build me a custom 5ohm motor with timing, $5 Dash vs $30 for a custom motor, man racing can get expensive, Lol Steve are you planning on building a car for my race? If so, I'm wondering why you are not going to run a mean green? They are still readily available. |
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Post by skillet on Feb 22, 2021 14:23:18 GMT -7
I don't think it would be worth the head ache to take a couple winds off Bill. From the arms I've taking apart anyway. I believe it would be easier just to put new wire on.
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Post by skillet on Feb 22, 2021 15:23:26 GMT -7
I measured 3 American line mean greens. They are nos from clear view hobby shop in elyira Ohio (nice place for new tyco 440x2) . They are measuring close to 6ohm. I have 5.7 , 5.8 and a 6.1ohm.
I have also been told the American line mean greens are a 50/50 gamble on getting a good running one. I honestly don't know personally. The ones I have seem good.
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Post by AJR on Feb 22, 2021 16:29:30 GMT -7
I agree with what Bill says. Looks like there is not enough magnet wire on the 4 ohm arm. All the ones I tried were under 5 ohms, most were in the low 4 ohm range. None ran as good as a good mean green. Larger wire/more turns would probably been a good idea. I have had very good results with the mean green however which you can buy at Jag hobbies for $5. I believe these arms are an aftermarket replacement. Trying to look for an arm that is just a little better, 5.7 vs 5.0 is a waste of time in my opinion. You can buy 5-6 mean greens for the cost of one custom wound 5 ohm. I will put my orange 57 Chevy Nomad against any custom wound 5 ohm and bet on the 57 coming in first and that is a very well used mean green that has seen 100s of passes down the track. Don't sell those arms short. Watch it run at Jeff's upcoming race and see if it still has it after all these years. Still has the ceramic magnets in it as the poly's killed 3 mph off of it. I agree with Dave here. I do try to find the lowest ohm I can find, but in the end I don't believe that it matters all that much. It's the matching of the parts that I think is the most important. Some arms like certain magnets....some don't like anything. I have a couple of mean greens that are right at 5.0 on all 3 poles that I have never been able to wake up. But I don't dare throw them away  . My feeling on the 4lam arms is that they might be really good for road racing, but it's the extra mass/weight of that extra lam that kills it's performance for drag racing. Extra rotational weight to get moving from a dead stop. Just a theory.... I kind of frown on dewinding arms....but that's just me. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 16:46:49 GMT -7
need clarification please.
the classes designated for 5 OHm arms ..
... do they allow dewind or rewind?
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Post by AJR on Feb 22, 2021 17:02:54 GMT -7
need clarification please. the classes designated for 5 OHm arms .. ... do they allow dewind or rewind? Rules thread nitroslots.com/page/ntra-rulesPancake Super Comp and Unlimited allow custom winds. |
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. My feeling on the 4lam arms is that they might be really good for road racing, but it's the extra mass/weight of that extra lam that kills it's performance for drag racing. Extra rotational weight to get moving from a dead stop. Just a theory....