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Post by bondoman2k on Dec 15, 2010 19:08:22 GMT -7
Actually, the two tracks that are scheduled for 2011 are Sam's "Psychoslot Dragway" and RickV's "Lions Dragstrip". Matt (440gtx) doesn't have one scheduled. While he may 'throw in' a race sometime this year, like he did with the FC's and the Musclecars (those were not 'scheduled' events), as far as I know, he doesn't want to be on the schedule. It DOES take a HUGE amount of work to actually put on and host one of these races, and a LOT of 'man hours' are involved. And then if something goes wrong, like timer failures, power outages, things like that, it can make things even worse. So all of this may contribute to the reasons somebody doesn't want to do one at their track. Or, there could be other reasons as well. I do agree that the 4 gear cars and the Xtraction cars should have a place in the NTRA. So we need to find an actual 'class' for the Xtraction (4 gears already are the FC class). And ok, maybe the Rats do have some mods, but not really many. Tires (of course), shunts, braids, and 'tweaking' and 'aligning' is allowed, but at present the only REAL 'modified' class is the Gassers. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Rat Rod class. But I also LOVE SS class too! I even built a whole new car after last years fiasco with my "bricks"! LOL ;D And now, looks like the ONLY racing it will see is on my OWN track when I get it finished!    The one thing I think we do need to be careful about, is having 'too many' classes. I think a better idea might be to look at what we actually have 'established' as a class, and possibly rework that class. The popularity of the 4gear and xtraction cars this year, I think was more due to the fact that it was something 'new'. Our first Superstock race had a LOT of entries in it. Then the next one had quite a bit less. And now, there are none scheduled. Nostalgia ProStock was discussed, the rules were created, then nobody built any cars to race. See what I'm getting at? Sure, I would have built and entered a LOT more cars, had the wife not gotten sick and passed away. That was almost two years of my life having to deal with that. And I still am. But it 'is what it is' on that matter. Can't change any of that now. All I'm saying is this guys, YES, we do need to discuss rules and classes, nothing wrong with that. That's how we get the classes and cars and the races. But let's not lose sight of the big picture here. Just a bunch of guys, trying to have some 'cheap' fun and maybe even get a little 'ego boost' when we win. And there should even be a place in there somewhere for the guy that does have a little to spend and doesn't mind spending it. Myself, I LOVE the 'thrill of competition'. Always have. Even if I KNOW I'm gonna lose..lol. Always been a VERY competitive kind of guy.  ;D And I'm one of the guys that doesn't have a lot of bux. Matter of fact, I JUST received two mean Green arms today so I can build a gasser. Had the body almost a year ago, got the tires 6 months ago..etc. Basically, I'm building my Gasser to the tune of Johnny Cash's song "One Piece at a Time" LOL!! Myself, I would love to see a ProMod class, based on either the Xtraction or 4 gear, Sam's idea of a "Doorslammer" class is cool too. And even possibly a 'full blown' FC class. Having two FC classes is another possible option, like having an 'Econo" FC and a AA FC clas ya know?. One thing we all REALLY need to do is start building some Nostalgia Pro Stocks! They ARE actually just a RatRod with a different body if I remember correctly? One last thing, not sure if you guys actually remember this or not, since the cars we raced this year have been so popular, but the FC 4 gear cars have never been an 'actual' class until the upcoming year, 2011. The two races we had for these were only 'exhibition' races. And yes, they got popular and became a class because the interest was there, and does still appear to be there. Also, the race we just got done with at Matt's (440) with the Musclecar/ Xtraction cars, was NOT a 'sanctioned' NTRA event. Sure, they were popular, and yes, I think there's a spot in the NTRA rules to put them somewhere. But, at present, the Musclecars are only "Outlaws". OK, now that you either hate me or completely agree with me..lol..I will shut up now. Let's all try to find MORE tracks to run these proxy races at ok? Talk to the people you know that have tracks, and see what their thoughts are. And if all else fails, and your down here so far south that no one actually seems to know what a 'Race Car' is, and have NO clue what HO even STANDS for (Other than the 'ladies of the night' that we occasionally raise an eyebrow too...LOL), you can start building your own track. ;D Remember this, ALL the classes and cars make NO difference whatsoever, if there is nowhere to race them! Ron (Bondo)  Lonestar Racing and Resins |
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Post by ninjatek on Dec 15, 2010 21:10:46 GMT -7
Many thoughts and opinions have been expressed through this thread. Many I would
support. More classes? I can take or leave that idea. There already exist more
classes than the number of venues can support. As it stands now it could take two
or three years to run every class if we chose to run every class without repeat.
That's with each venue running two classes each event twice a year. Keep in mind
that the track managers are exempt from the races they host. This would in no way
be fair to them. As for support of more classes, I like the variety of chassis
that I would learn about. The high dollar classes I would try one a year. I do not
think I would enter multiple high dollar classes in the same year (but, I'd try).
So add more classes, I don't mind. When would we run them? I don't know.
Where am I going with this? In circles probably. The way I see it, more tracks are
definitely needed. Until we have more venues available, no matter how many classes
there are only a few classes a year can be run.
Thanks my $.01
-Ninjatek
***Anyone with a track or anticipating having a track and is interested in hosting an event
can PM me.
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Post by 440gtx on Dec 15, 2010 21:52:51 GMT -7
It would be interesting (at least to me) to put a blue drag arm in a modern AW 4 Gear. That arm was designed for that chassis to get those big rears moving. I may have to give that a try will I'm home recouping Knee Surgery. I have done some testing with the blue drag arms and my cars are quicker with mean green arms. The 4-gear chassis are geared low to begin with. That's why they run out of acceleration way before the finish line. The way to get more speed out of them is to change the gear ratio or spin the motor faster. I don't know of any way to change the gear ratio other than putting taller tires on them. The mean green spins faster than the blue drag arm. The blue might be better for 1/8 mile but from what I've seen, the Green is quicker in the 1/4. The 2 funny cars that I sent to Rick's for the finals were Afx chassis with AW arms. With the same arm and magnets I get better ET's out of an AFX than a AW chassis. I think it has a lot to do with better manufacturing of the chassis and gears on the Afx. Matt |
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Post by kdog on Dec 16, 2010 5:47:54 GMT -7
Both Ninjatec, and Bondo are correct, we have plenty of classes with well though out rules. Some of the newer racers may not have been watching, and even if you were around, most of the discussion was in the race directors room with limited access.
To set the record straight Sam, John Balich, Allstar, Nightrider, and myself, spent many evenings on the rules for SS, Gasser, Rat Rod, classes. Always listening to the input from racers. Just wanted all the names out there.
The Stock and Muscle cars came later mostly with input from you guys, but still relying on the basic outline from before. Super Sport, Stock, and Muscle Car, are all cheap builds and one of those classes seems to run at every event, for those not wanting to spend a bunch of cash.
With the new cars / bodies out there for the 4 gear chassis it's exciting to me to see that class added, (we are a T Jet only club in St Louis but we are going to add 4 Gear into our mix as well). I feel adding some performance parts to the 4 Gear chassis works as the types of bodies out there would be a step up from Super Stock in real racing. Mostly you guys decide what the rules will end up being now days, and I look forward to seeing the final set of rules so I can start building my rod.
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Post by scottman2007 on Dec 16, 2010 6:49:30 GMT -7
i agree with Kdog.
and i know that we were a tjet club on here as well,but i have said before and ill say it again,it was great to run tjets ,when the meade bros were making bodies and decal sets for tjets.Yes there might be some gasser bodies out there but basically thats it,when the meade bros were making bodies,they made,Pro stocks,Pro mods,gassers super stock,and funny cars.So i understand and like the idea of 4gear chassis classes,but at the same time i do like Tjets.I do think that Hairy Canary is making gasser bodies for Tjets which is awsome,and if he could make some other bodies for Tjet classes iam all for it.To me i like all of our classes and chassis we run.but some how i would love to see some what of a stock Pro stock class weather it is Tjet or 4 gear ,as long as there are bodies available.I would rather buy my bodies than make them.But iam all for whatever we want to run.This is the best HO drag racing club in the US in my opinon. i mean this club has already been in a magazine for Sam Gasser Nationals. So if someone wants to come up with some new classes thats fine,the more classes to choose from i think the better,that way at differrent events we able to a run wider range of classes.do we have to run every class all the time No,but we have more to choose from which makes our club that much better.All i know is I want to race and cant wait for the next event.
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L_Brown
Pro Stock
Larry Brown - North Texas
Posts: 347
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Post by L_Brown on Dec 16, 2010 7:27:24 GMT -7
Personally, I came from 24th scale racing and ran a lot of class's. I would have a few hundred or more in each car. So with the HO scale, I was like wow....look at how many HO cars I cave per one 24th scale car. And Im like, how many plane stock cars do I want....I want to go fast.....
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Post by sjracer on Dec 16, 2010 7:27:53 GMT -7
I realize I am new also but I do enjoy drag racing HO slots. I participated in the first 4 gear race. As far as participation cost of a class wasn't a factor as I already have cars since I drag race in the Lansdale/Skippack Pa area with Jim Sgrig and Hank at Hank's Eagle Raceway. What I think one should consider with cost is how many people want to send a high dollar car to a proxy race, a lot can go wrong in the shipping process. I also like tweaking my car myself, I normally set a car up to the best of my ability for a race but the final tweaking is done race day as the difference in rail height is crucial to the performance of the car. I love the four gears always have but to keep things affordable I would say any gearing, any tires, shunts,any ceramic magnets, braids, and a stock non balanced motor that ohms no lower than a 5.0. The reason for a non balanced motor is that I can't do it and to buy one cost $15 for $20 I can custom built arm from Jim Sgig to ohm 3.2. I'm assuming that if we are really trying to make the hobby grow and get more people involved lets not give an unfair advantage to those with more knowledge. Just my $0.02
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Post by sjracer on Dec 16, 2010 7:33:01 GMT -7
One other quick comment, I'm not trying to step on any toes here but we shouldn't have to buy a body use stock bodies. If isn't reasonable to spend $15-$20 on a motor why should we have to spend that much on a body? Forgive me but given the choice between the two I'll take the motor.
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L_Brown
Pro Stock
Larry Brown - North Texas
Posts: 347
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Post by L_Brown on Dec 16, 2010 9:11:12 GMT -7
This has been a good thread.
Lets just get some rules done and I will be happy with anything that is decided.
I am going to build my own track soon I hope and at that point I can bo what ever.
I plan on having at least one car for each class for the NTRA. I will also run the same cars and rules at my track plus any extra's I want... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by scottman2007 on Dec 16, 2010 12:13:31 GMT -7
In response to sjracer about the bodies issues,here in ho slot car drag racing its not like 24th scale.i have 24th scale drag raced too,and the great thing about that scale is ,you can go buy lexan bodies for $5 or go buy a model and use the body,here in Ho yes there are some mfg of ho bodies,but not alot of Funny car,Pro stock,Pro mod bodies,So the few guys that do make the bodies,they are expensive to make for the simple fact the resins you use are alot of money.thats one reason,and about running any body we have, classes just like 24th scale,you dont run a pro stock body in a Funny car class in 24th scale ..right?? same thing here.
so to me the body cost is always in my budget,its just that you buy a body,then start buying poly magnets and balanced arms,then a car that basically cost around $25-$35 dollars, now will cost you $70 to $85 dollars.Turst me HO cars can get very expensive,some of these guys that road race HO cars have $300 plus dollars in them. i like to go fast too,but i dont want to put in $80 in every car. lets get down to making some rules now,and lets take all of this great input and get down to business,LOL.
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Post by SKR on Dec 16, 2010 18:51:16 GMT -7
One other quick comment, I'm not trying to step on any toes here but we shouldn't have to buy a body use stock bodies. If isn't reasonable to spend $15-$20 on a motor why should we have to spend that much on a body? Forgive me but given the choice between the two I'll take the motor. I don't think your stepping on anybodies toes but I do have a question about your statement. Where has anyone mentioned anything about having to buy a resin body to compete? Did I miss something? I suggested running P/M and P/S bodies in a door slammer class. This way a guy could buy a new AW P/S and use that body. I also mentioned that a few of us are working on new resin bodies so more options would be available. I'm not trying to make a buck here, if I was I wouldn't show everyone step by step on how I do things. Now in trying to keep costs down for a new proxy class I suggested a mean green armature that retails for less than $5 over a custom armature. This was for a few reasons. First not everyone has the cash and second... if in fact beginners were to get into this hobby and only had a AW home set to tune on... then a low ohm armature wouldn't run so hot on a wall wart. My apologies if I offended you or any of the guys that custom wound armatures. If this class was intended for my track and the local guys I race with..... then I'd be all for running a custom armature because in the long run I think you end up spending less money on one custom wound armature rather than spend a bunch of money on stock armatures to find a good one. Sam |
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Post by sjracer on Dec 16, 2010 21:09:33 GMT -7
Sam I love your work and I personally would buy a body or two , my train of thought was that the goal is to attract new people and to keep it inexpensive perhaps the better way to put it is haing the option to buy a resin body for a class but not making it mandatory for a class. I like seeing differnt body styles when I go to slot car shows and to different races. I also agreed with the premise of having an arm such as a mean green that would wasn't balanced and didn't ohm under a 5.0 and the reason I said t 5.0 is because I've had some of the non mag green tip, green wire ohm 5.5 and 5.6. Now as far as a mean green to the best of my knowledge they are/were aftermarket and not stock. I'm not trying to be niave but is there good supply out there? Is anybody still making them because if we're just using what's left from 30 years ago there could be a supply problem. Just my $0.02
Darryl
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Post by 440gtx on Dec 16, 2010 21:59:46 GMT -7
The mean green armature was stock on some of the non-magnatraction Afx cars. Those arms were the green pole/green wire. The green pole/gold wire were American line aftermarket items.
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Post by bondoman2k on Dec 16, 2010 22:21:42 GMT -7
The Mean Green arms did come as stock. I know they came out in AFX cars, but not sure if they were around before that. Actually, I just bought two original Mean Green arms, stil unused, NOS (new old stock) and they are mounted on an original AFX gearplate. From what I hear, the original arms are actually better than the reproduction ones. At least that's what I'm hoping for! ;D And actually, there was never any 'particular' rule to run a resin body. The only rule that came close was how they had to 'appear' to be in that class. You could always use an original body, as long as it fit the 'theme' of that particular class. To you guys that still don't 'agree' with the "Doorslammer" class Sam was talking about (and a few more of us are also interested in), just sit back and think about it. ANY body, resin or original, hood scoops, blowers, or a 'flat' hood, running a Mean Green arm, shunts, braids, change the rear tires, maybe shim the magnets, polishing the arm but not balanced, how much money can we be talkin with this class? A 5 or 6 dollar arm, 2 bux in rear silicones, the cost of the original car..maybe a resin body, maybe just use the one that came on the car..not much cost at all! And ok, it's not exactly 'entry level' but it IS still cheap! And, what truly DOES 'entry level' mean? There's already a stock Tjet class, no mods at all, RatRod, which has shunt wires, braids and rear tire change (stock AW arm..14 ohm arm BTW, still mods that a 'beginner' CAN do), the xtraction Musclecars are stock with only a rear tire change, the 4 gear FC cars are stock (pretty much anyway, tire change and any replacement 'stock' type part is allowed), and like I said before, the only class that currently races that doesn't fall into 'entry level' would be the Gassers. And even those cars aren't all that hard to build, ANYONE on this board that has one I'm SURE would be glad to help somebody build one or more! I just hate to see EVERY class we have become a 'stock, entry level class. And to me it looks like that's the direction this is headed. I agree that may get people started, but as with any form of racing (or competition in general) eventually the new guys will become 'bored' with that and either want to go faster, or leave. And we REALLY don't want anyone to quit do we? We need ALL the racers we can get! How about if a few of us put together a car or cars for the possible "Dooirslammer" class, and maybe do an 'exhibition' race or two to see what everybody thinks? that way you can see them race, what kind of times and speeds they go, and even get a fairly close 'ballpark' indication of what they cost to build? I know I'll gladly build one. OK guys, we ALL need to think and discuss this as much as necessary. It is a new year, and while most of the NTRA rules are in place, this is the best time to discuss and 'change' what is necessary to keep this 'organization' growing (The NTRA I mean). But let's try real hard not to keep repeating the same thing over and over. That gets nobody anywhere. ;D And Scottman..this is not a 'club' as you keep referring to it..LOL (just reminding ya..not gettin' on ya about it ). Altho I guess to some, it would seem like a 'club'. With that I say, in the words of a Saturday Nite Live skit, "Goodnite, and have a pleasant tomorrow". (Boy, goin' back a LONG way with THAT one..lol) Ron (Bondo) Lonestar Racing and Resins |
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Post by 440gtx on Dec 17, 2010 5:06:41 GMT -7
Hey Bondo, both of my gassers are running the Afx green wire arms.
Actually the mean green started with the Afx's (non-magnatractions). Before the MG the tuff-ones arms (red pole/green wire) were the hot arms. They actually put some of the tuffy arms in some of the early Afx's. Later in the Afx run they switched over to the red arm/red wire. That is the arm that carried over to the magnatractions.
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;D And I'm one of the guys that doesn't have a lot of bux. Matter of fact, I JUST received two mean Green arms today so I can build a gasser. Had the body almost a year ago, got the tires 6 months ago..etc. Basically, I'm building my Gasser to the tune of Johnny Cash's song "One Piece at a Time" LOL!! 
